930 and a problem or two!

[VYY930]

I've just "invested" in a 1985, 930 and she's great. Heavier on the steering and clutch than I had anticipated but I can get used to it.

Anyway, I've only had her a day or two now and I filled the tank up with a "No name" brand of unleaded fuel. I also slung in a small amount of lead additive which the last owner advised. Anyway, I started her up at the garage and drove around for 40 minutes or so getting used to driving it (nothing heavy at all!). When I got home I parked up on the drive. A few hours later I tried to start her but she was having none of it. It was cranking over but not firing. I called out a recovery guy (lucky I took that out with my insurance!) and he turned the engine over with is foot slowly pressing down on the accelerator until she fired up (took a fair bit of cranking over mind you!). I and apparently the previous owner have never had to do that. She starts on the turn of the key each time normally.

After getting the engine running again each subsequent attempt at starting her working fine but.....after leaving it off for 15 minutes or so, she refused to start. We finally got her going again but I dont hold out much hope for my next attempt tomorrow.

I will look in the history file and see when the distributor cap and rotor arm were last changed as my feeling is this might need doing. The car was never used much by the previous owner and has 79000 on the clock (only about 9000 of which has been done since the start of 2002).

Could it be anything to do with the "cheap, unbranded fuel" or something more sinister?
Also, the gearbox was completely rebuilt in 2002 but occasionally I get bit of a crunch in 3rd. Is the syncro likely to be worn already after a mere 9000 miles use. The last time I went out in it by the time I had driven for a while it seemed to be MUCH better. Could this be down to the fact that the last owner of the car only covered a small amount of miles in his 2.5 year ownership and merely needs a bit of "running in!"?

Any help greately appreciated.
Chris

 

[Chris_911]

Hi Chris - can't help with your specific problems but you might also like to post your request for help on

www.impactbumpers.com

There are a few 930 owners who hang out there.

 

[VYY930]

Hi there,

Thanks for a quick reply.

I will take a look at that site in a moment.

I've been trying to get myself registered with the club. I have my membership number etc just come through today but it wont let me setup an account for some reason. Maybe I have to wait a bit for the powers that be??

Chris

 

[burrow01]

You could always check the DME relay - this supplies the power to the fuel pump, and is notoriously dodgy

Pete

 

[VYY930]

Hi,

From the smell of fuel I would guess that fuel is getting to the engine ok. It's a weird one but I'm hoping has a simple fix. It was too dark to really look into it earlier but tomorrow's another day and I'm ready to find it.

Chris

 

[Nick Moss]

check the DME relay

Don't bother. 3.3 Turbos don't have DME. It has a good old CDI system.

I would check the 2 fuel pump relays, the fuel pressure resevoir and the fuel lines for leaks. Try changing the gearbox oil.

 

[John_Ward]

ORIGINAL: VYY930


Anyway, I've only had her a day or two now and I filled the tank up with a "No name" brand of unleaded fuel. I also slung in a small amount of lead additive which the last owner advised. Anyway, I started her up at the garage and drove around for 40 minutes or so getting used to driving it (nothing heavy at all!). When I got home I parked up on the drive. A few hours later I tried to start her but she was having none of it. It was cranking over but not firing. I called out a recovery guy (lucky I took that out with my insurance!) and he turned the engine over with is foot slowly pressing down on the accelerator until she fired up (took a fair bit of cranking over mind you!). I and apparently the previous owner have never had to do that. She starts on the turn of the key each time normally.

After getting the engine running again each subsequent attempt at starting her working fine but.....after leaving it off for 15 minutes or so, she refused to start. We finally got her going again but I dont hold out much hope for my next attempt tomorrow.

Chris

A couple of thoughts to add:
1) Don't bother with a lead additive - the car doesn't need it. Normal unleaded fuel is fine unless you are going to be running flat out for any period of time ( autobahns, trackdays ), in which case go for Super Unleaded.
2) If it is specifically a hot start problem i.e. it starts fine each morning when cold, then it may well be that a non return valve in the fuel line has failed. Relatively simple to fix, and covered in "101 Projects for your Porsche 911".
3) CDI unit is a pain, as they are expensive to buy and not many people are able to repair them. However, don't assume that it is the CDI unit until you have checked fuses, relays and engine bay wiring ( my defective CDI turned out to be a broken wire which I couldn't see because the break was inside a right angled connector - the wire pulled out as I brushed against it! ).

Good luck

 

[turbo jonny]

When you get it fixed drive it regularly.I bought a 930 that had hardly been used for over a year,
and it improved a lot with use and a number of small issues just went away and it never missed a beat after that.

 

[VYY930]

Thank you for your help.

I will check the fuel pump relays as instructed. I'm sure I have read in the history that fuel pumps and relays have been changed in the past so this might be the cause once again.

Having only had the car for a few days and it start on the button every time I think it has to be something easy *cough*! I will go try starting her in a bit. I would imagine if I can get her running then she will start each try after. It appears from last night that the problem happens when she has been left for more than 15 minutes. I'll confirm what happens when I try next.

I'll stop with the lead substitute as the car is only for pleasure use and will never be thrashed.

Looking through the service advisory notes I see that the cigar lighter isnt working and also the oil temp sender unit requires replacing as its faulty. I'm looking for a good manual that can help me sort this out. I see eBay has some pdf based stuff. Any ideas or pointers? I have knowledge of electrical circuits and the basics on engines but of course the 3.3 is a bit more advanced than an old Escort Turbo I owned many moons ago.

Once again thanks for your help.
Chris

PS. The gearlever feels "sloppy" when moving from side to side? Should it have a spring mechanism to hold it in a position when in neutral?

 

[JBL930]

This is a useful guide for those of us with CIS

http://www.pelicanparts.com/911/technical_specs/911_cis_troubleshoot.htm

 

[VYY930]

Thanks for the info!

Its a mystery of why she didnt want to start the other day because I have tried starting her over the past 2 days and she starts first time again. So, its left me baffled. I did check the relays in the luggage compartment and I'm sure the "Air Con" relay was half hanging out and not in the right pin orientation. Today I have checked the distributor cap and rotor arm and they look pretty clean and newish.

Anyway, I have some more questions for you if any1 can help.

1) My "Oil level" gauge (right hand side of fuel gauge) isnt working so I followed the steps in the workshop manual. I went across the two terminals on the oil sensor in the o/s/r wheel arch using an ohmeter, I also tried each terminal to ground. I had open circuit on all tests except when I went from the outer terminal to a ground point whereby I had a fluctuating reading of I think around 7K or 7M ohms (cant remember excatly which but probably the M ohm reading). I am taking this reading as open circuit too. I assume this is correct and my sensor is faulty. I think I can replace this for a new one without any draining of oil. Is this correct?

2) My Oil Pressure gauge is a bit hit and miss at the moment too. The needle did point to 5 permanently but once the other day it did show around 3 to 4 depending on how how the car was driven (Just a short 5 mile urban drive). When the ignition is ON this needle goes straight to the top of the gauge as done the Oil Level needle (mentioned above). The needles then stay there even when you switch the ignition OFF until you give the glass a gentle tap and they drop. I guess they are just sticking up! Is this sensor easy to test as I'm not 100% sure on where it is. Can someone help me to locate this.

3) My cigar lighter doesnt appear to be working. The fuse and wiring from the fuse box appears to be correct. Fuse 6, 25A, with red/black wire. When the lighter is pressed in I assume it is supposed to stay in and pop out when hot like normal cars lighters? Mine does not stay in at all. But is my thinking correct?

I have a couple of "other" things I need to take a look at too but won't "over do it" on this post!

Once again if anyone can help me out then it will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Chris

PS. I'm going to search the net for prices on the sensors unless you guys can post quicker than I can search.

 

[nathan 1981 930 G50]

Sounds like your fuel is not staying under pressure due to a non return or a leaking/dripping injector. However, my money would be on the fuel accumalator.

The oil pressure sender is the one near the fan belt on the right.

As for your gearbox, sounds like your sync is screwed and could do with redoing. Maybe they only replaced the ring and not the rest.

There is a guy in Nottingham who has had his 930 box opened 3 times now. My 915 is on its third fix in 7 years...

If you use your turbo (I mean get on boost) then you should use the expensive fuel. I always used optimax which has just been replaced with Vpower. You might be eating away your pistons and you won't know until they fail although you should be able to see some metal on the spark plugs if they are being eaten...

 

[VYY930]

Nathan,

The 3rd gear issue seems to disappear after I have driven for 1 mile or two. The gearbox had a rebuild at the start of February 2002 including gears, and syncro's along with clutch and a service. The cost was a smidge over £5000.00, it went back in again during August 2002 to change the reversing fork. The car has only done 9000 miles since! All the gears are fine apart from 3rd which only seems to "play up" for a few miles or so.

The starting problem has just gone away! I'll probably use Shell Vpower as fuel from now on. I used to use that in my MR2 import and that ran better on it.

Is the gearbox in the 1985 Turbo the 915? I thought you could identify them by the location of the "reverse" gear being to the right and down. My reverse is top and left next to 1st.

All these problems in my opinion are minor so I'm not worried about them so to speak. I am looking into them all though. The oil pressure sender is my next on the list along with the oil level sender. Is there any way to test the oil pressure sender in car?

How much does it cost you when you sort your gearbox out? I assume you mean replacing the syncro's? My 2002 bill shows them to be around £80.00 for each gear. Any idea how long it takes in the garage? Could be an Autofarm jobby soon.

Chris

 

[nathan 1981 930 G50]

I would say it is normal when the oil is cold to be easy on the stick until the oil warms up. It was suggested you change the oil, maybe it doesn't have the right one.

I am afraid that unless I saw the actual parts being installed in my box (or unless I did it myself) then you really do not know what went in there (sorry to be so negative). The fact that someone paid for them doesn't mean anything or were the ratios changed so then you would know ?

I even put the high octane in my 3.2 carrera.

Sorry, the 915 is in my early 3.2 carrera (R is near 5th). Your 4 speeder is the the 930 box, there is not a great difference in regards to the sync between them. My 930 has a shortened G50/01 fitted with a LSD [] The G50 also has R near 1st and I don't like this as it is easy to stay in R by mistake when you are in a hurry []... I tend to avoid 3 point turns and make use of the LSD []

I'm sorry, I have never had any problems with any senders of my cars and do not know anything about them.

I think £80 will only get you the ring, there are other parts as well. From what I remember to do 1st and 2nd gear cost me in parts only about £650 or £850. I should have done 3rd gear and the clutch as I ended up with the clutch going and had 3rd gear done (sync ring, dog teeth and the sliding sleeve).
This time my 2nd gear sync is a mess and needs sync ring, dog teeth and the sliding sleeve again [], the bad news is that also this time a bearing has failed [:'(].

If they get all the parts (but who knows what you will need) it could be done in 3 days. I guess this equates to two weeks if they work hard at it for you.

Autofarm seem to be good people.

 

[MegatronUK]

ORIGINAL: VYY930
I'll stop with the lead substitute as the car is only for pleasure use and will never be thrashed.

I'd be careful there, as with any performance motor, they need to be thrashed now and again... getting the engine speed up to the higher rpm's and getting that big ol' turbo spinning now and again is a good idea from a maintenance perspective.

ORIGINAL: VYY930
... I have knowledge of electrical circuits and the basics on engines but of course the 3.3 is a bit more advanced than an old Escort Turbo I owned many moons ago.

You'd be surprised... if you're talking RST (or the pre-EFI XR3), then it's pretty much the same fuelling system! .. and it still just uses a dizzy

 

[VYY930]

Lol, yeah. I believe the Turbo uses the K-Jetronic injection system which although pretty old now I did know a little about.

I'm slowly getting the jobs on the car done. New luggage compartment seal, worked out why luggage compartment light didnt come on (due to a previous alarm system removal I think), new mirror motor on way, a couple of new exterior seals, new electric mirror dash switch. Probably soon to fix cigarette lighter (no voltage on it at present!). New oil level sender unit. Not much left to do I hope.

I thinkI read somewhere that the oil sender unit located in the rear offside wheel arch can be swopped over without draining the oil. Is anyone able to confirm this beforeI go ahead please?

I did give the turbo bit of a spin the other day down the motorway!!

Cheers,
Chris

 

[2.4te]

Try replacing the gearbox oil with Swepco

 

[911addict]

Hi Chris,
Just read your post. I have a later 3.3 (965) and also owned 2 x 3.2 Carerras so have some similarities.
A couple of quick thoughts:
- gearbox. When the oil is warmed, it may run smoother, if so don't worry.
- oil gauge: if you're talking about the oil level reading fluctuating, then please read your owner's manual. Many newbies don't realise that the 911 only shows a true reading when engine running, on a flat surface, fully warmed up. In all other conditions (eg. engine off, sloped ground, cold) the readings are meaningless.)

I agree with Nathan, 911's need to rack up the miles, drive it and enjoy!

 

[VYY930]

Hi,

Since my last post the gearbox is still fine after a bit of warming up. I will get the oil changed asap. I'll probably get her booked in somewhere to get her fully checked out. (I would do the oil myself if it was an easy job but on my drive things may get difficult).

The oil pressure gauge was a broken wire at the crimp on the sender unit on the engine (occasionally making contact).

The oil level gauge problem was down to a knackered gauge AND a faulty oil tank sender unit - now all fixed and working!

Things left still to do. I seem to be finding 'em as I go!
1) Ciagarette lighter not working - no voltage
2) Engine light on engine hood not working - no voltage
3) There is a 3 position circular "fan" switch just left of the steering wheel - not working.
4) headlamp washers not working
5) drivers side washer jet blocked
6) Missing a pipe below dash which transfers heat to left hand side dash vent

As you can see they are all pretty minor things, at least in my eyes.

I have every manual for this car apart from the "owners manual" but have just managed to get hold of one from America!

Have also found a small oil leak now, argghh. Right hand side of engine which drips down onto a pipe/hose covered in foil. This then drips onto heat exchanger by the look of it.

I think this car is going to be going in soon for some work. I'm one of those people who likes to get everything done.

Chris

 

[911addict]

"I think this car is going to be going in soon for some work. I'm one of those people who likes to get everything done. "

Me too. It's never ending!