944 CUP CAR Needed September

[carreraboy]

Would be good to have some technical info on these cars. where when why, how many etc.

be great if one could be located for the National event, the original Cup Car, maybe leading the pack from 964Carrera2, 964RS Supercup 993 Supercup, 996,997,991 ....[]

 

[hotblack944]

How's your French? [] http://www.asarus.com/cup/index.shtml

 

[Melv]

Porsche Museum has one....

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Would be good to have some technical info on these cars. where when why, how many etc.

Quite prepared to be corrected, but: Where? Germany.....[] When and why, one-make race series 1987/8. only pretty mildly tweaked standard 220 turbos but with stripped interior, no pas etc. How many, I think about 100 in the US, less than that in Aus, and c. 200 others in the ROW. Some info [link=http://944turbo.net/?page_id=88]here[/link], but there's so much conflicting stuff that it's hard to be conclusive about anything with the Cup cars. There are none in the Register, and so far as I know none in the Club. The one we did see was subject to a LOT of discussion, as it had a very dubious history. It was thought to have been split in two in a crash and repaired without Porsche's approval, and the owner believed it to have a chip that more than doubled the power to 500 bhp. Supposedly this was meant as a "guest" driver car in the race series, so celebs could turn up and look heroic! [&:]

 

[carreraboy]

Seems a similar story to the 964, so many were broken up and bastardised. They were unwanted orphans and often sold as road supercars with turbo engine and wide body[]

 

[Ex Skyline]

You missed out Des', "YOBO"'s gone.........[][8D]

 

[George Elliott]

How's your French?

not sure but carreraboy is absolute fluent in German..... [][][]

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Came across an old email with supposedly accurate production figures: US cars 100, perhaps a little more Australian cars 30 c. 180 over the rest of the markets. That conversation also reinforced the idea that there were cars prepped for "guest" drivers, but the points they earned didn't count towards the championships. I think the idea they had a super-chip that instantly raised power to 500 bhp is ludicrous, though!

 

[carreraboy]

Similar total numbers to the 64 ... as I say would be good to have ALL the Cup's out and get the 944 in front, what if you put a plea out for one Paul?

 

[Andy97]

Was the 944T ever homologated for international competition? I have been told that the 944T was the only 44 homologated but haven't found a reference to that. If so, was it the 220 or 250 version? Might be useful to know for when historic racing catches up with the 944 era Lol!

 

[OLD_ian]

watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GRZSU-c3tI if you want to see why people might have said that. Of course Scott Goodyear is probably a bit more talented than the average weekend racer he might have been up against.

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty Came across an old email with supposedly accurate production figures: US cars 100, perhaps a little more Australian cars 30 c. 180 over the rest of the markets. That conversation also reinforced the idea that there were cars prepped for "guest" drivers, but the points they earned didn't count towards the championships. I think the idea they had a super-chip that instantly raised power to 500 bhp is ludicrous, though!

 

[Neil Haughey]

I think all sorts of things happened to those cars, EMC had one a few years back that had been used as a race car in various forms pretty much continuously since way back when. The problem is when something has been used hard for so long it ends up a bit of a Triggers broom (God rest his soul).

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty There are none in the Register, and so far as I know none in the Club. The one we did see was subject to a LOT of discussion, as it had a very dubious history. It was thought to have been split in two in a crash and repaired without Porsche's approval, and the owner believed it to have a chip that more than doubled the power to 500 bhp. Supposedly this was meant as a "guest" driver car in the race series, so celebs could turn up and look heroic! [&:]

The gentleman in question was in a parallel world of his own. He was telling everyone that his car was so special that Derek Bell was going to be driving it during the parade laps. Funnily enough none of us saw Derek Bell. Probably just as well considering the issues of someone else managing to park his car in the kitty litter during the parade laps - ring any bells []. The whole concept of getting a 220 to 500 bhp with nothing more than a chip is ludicrous (so many of us have tried [] ) Have we even seen a 500 bhp 2.5 ltr 951 with every possible available mod yet? The other issue with chipping to up the boost is it can make the car more of a handful so may make guest drivers look more silly but would certainly have more grunt on the straightaways (snigger). All YouTube clips I have seen would suggest any 944 Cup cars which survived the carnage would be pretty undesirable as a second hand purchase. My assumption is most would have been stripped for all the bits of any value (cage/seats/wheels etc.) and the battered shell disposed of unceremoniously. They would have been little more interest than a battered Clio Cup car and, anyone who has tried to sell a second hand racing car with little pedigree will appreciate that, back in the day, they would have been worth more in parts than as a whole.

 

[Indi9xx]

If the dubious one is the red one that used to live in Poole, Dorset, I have some history on that one. HotBlack944 on here, Jim, Found it as almost a "barn find" in the loft of an old industrial building/warehouse, along with several rare cars and not so rare cars, in Poole, where the owner had been hording it for years, the photos of it on that French website are the ones that he took of the car, and he took me along to check it out. The history from the owner who owned it then, and had owned it for years, was that it was owned by a french race driver, who many years ago had crashed it in the UK, sometime in the late 80's on a track. A UK bodyshop had started repairs and asked the owner for a deposit and at that point the owner vanished off of the face of the earth for years. During the 90's the bodyshop had sold it without log book or any paperwork to this car collector hoarder, who then stored it in this loft space. I was offered the car for £4k in its crashed state, but to be honest, was completely put off, even at its cheap price, as it had no log book, paperwork, or proof of ownership, and the last thing I wanted to do was restore it and end up having it repossessed. About a year later, a chap bought it and we helped him get it back on the road.. and he eventually sold the car a couple of years ago for approaching £20k Having worked on the car, I can confirm it had the right chassis numbers, which checked out at the factory, but did not have the original engine numbers, had lost its turbo cup intake manifold and sump, and had a M44.52 engine in it with a standard turbo k26/8 turbo. When he sold it, it had a turbo cup chip set in it, not a special super chip, which, given the engine and turbo being tip top, would have made bang on the 250 bhp it should have made for the competition, as long as wastegate, fuel pressure, and absolutely everything was spot on, including the engine, which was not a turbo cup engine, so.. who knows what it had, maybe less than 250. I have a car which is refered to as a turbo cup, but it isnt really a turbo cup in the pure or technical sense... It is Tom Walkinshaw's 944 turbo, which was originally bought as a standard 944 turbo from new by Tom and converted to Turbo Cup spec by TWR and my father in 1988 with a view to racing 944 turbo's in Touring car for Silk Cut instead of the Jaguars that they had been racing, as Jaguar were looking shakey as a company, but it never panned out. Unfortunately, there were a lot of cars which were built by Porsche and race teams and documentation even by the factory is very shakey as many cars were built and registered as turbo cups, which have normal chassis numbers.. it does not help that in racing Porsche would allow a car to be re-shelled using a used shell, so lots of cars started out as turbo cups and became bastards, as well as the Motorsport and Special wish departments building cars which were not part of the official turbo cup line, another good example of this are the 968 turbo S (Not the RS) where it is not completely documented how many were really built and you get different numbers from different departments at Porsche. Another good example of this, the Sultan of Brunei has two, where the chassis numbers are in the right range, but do not come back from the Porsche librarian as existing at all, however the motorsport dept confirm they built them. Both of these cars were last serviced, cleaned and got running in 2001 by myself and I recently had it confirmed that they have not moved since. There were some professional racers involved with the racing in France, I know Tiff was employed by Porsche to race them in the 80's and was also given a 944 turbo road car as part of the deal as Porsche did not like him turning up places and seen by the press in a couple of year old BMW. Now if someone had the Turbo cup that had been raced by one of these known pro drivers, with some documented history and confirmation of this, as well as the paper trail from Porsche for the build, now that would be a special car worth a lot of cash in the future.

 

[carreraboy]

ORIGINAL: Andy97 Was the 944T ever homologated for international competition? I have been told that the 944T was the only 44 homologated but haven't found a reference to that. If so, was it the 220 or 250 version? Might be useful to know for when historic racing catches up with the 944 era Lol!

The 944 as the early 964 Cups were in a closed series so no homolagation for N-GT or FiA

 

[Andy97]

ORIGINAL: carreraboy

ORIGINAL: Andy97 Was the 944T ever homologated for international competition? I have been told that the 944T was the only 44 homologated but haven't found a reference to that. If so, was it the 220 or 250 version? Might be useful to know for when historic racing catches up with the 944 era Lol!

The 944 as the early 964 Cups were in a closed series so no homolagation for N-GT or FiA

Yes I understand that, but the 944T could have been homologated for racing outside of the one make series.

 

[Andy97]

Should have tried Google in the first place! http://hrct.co.uk/misc/fia/fia-homologation-paper-index/ 944 Turbo was homologated on 1st June 1986. That makes it the 220 Bhp model then. Only 944 that appears to have been. Homologation Number 284 Group B Equivalence of x 1.4 Equivalent cc = 3470

 

[hotblack944]

ORIGINAL: Indi9xx HotBlack944 on here, Jim, Found it as almost a "barn find" in the loft of an old industrial building/warehouse

I took video of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCtkXpEJicE I too seriously considered buying and restoring it *sigh*

 

[944 man]

Jim, did this car end up being touted around a couple of years ago, by a bit of a wally?

 

[carreraboy]

Looks the real deal .... obviously needed a complete make over ....