944 Made by Audi?

Copperman05 · Oct 3, 2008

Hi,

Been having a discussion with a friend about the history of the 944 and its origins. I know sometimes 944 owners are sometimes looked down upon by some other Porsche (911) owners, usually around the cars authenicity as a 'real' Porsche. There is no doubt in my mind that a 944 is a real Porsche but I know for sure some of the earlier 924 were built for Porsche by Audi. Was this the same for the 944? I heard that the 968 was built at the Porsche factory and perhaps some of the latest 944's.

Does anyone know anymore about this? I have read a fair amount about the model, in books and the internet but I've yet to find the definitive answer..

Edd

944 man · Oct 3, 2008

Part of the deal to buy back the 924 design involved Porsche subbing assembly of the cars at the about to close NSU plant at Neckarsulm.

All series production 924s were built there, as were the 944s. Some 968s (later) were built in Stuttgart.

Fen · Oct 3, 2008

Most 944s were built in in Audi's plant (Neckarsulm). The last were built in Stuttgart at Porsche's factory. I have actually heard it said the Audi built ones were the better built ones...

edited as based on the post above I may be wrong about it being the 944 rather than the 968 that was in production when the factory changed.

Either way the 924 was the model that had some collaboration between Porsche and VAG on the design and as alluded to above it was going be to a VW before they got cold feet about launching a dedicated sports car off the back of an oil crisis and Porsche took it on to launch themselves.

944 man · Oct 3, 2008

You can tell where they were built from the VIN number: WPOzzz94zMN412345 (or WPOzzz96zPS812345). N indicates the NSU/VAG factory at Neckalsulm and S indicates Stuttgart.

944 man · Oct 3, 2008

Soon your friend will be telling you that they have VW door handles and a VW van engine. The handles were made to look like VAG parts, as Porsche were designing a VAG car, although they are completely different. The 'van' engine is actually a steel cranked adaption of a DKW (when they were owned by Mercedes) engine. It was an OHV originally which was used as the basis of a very different slant OHC engine for the upcoming AUDI 100.....

Copperman05 · Oct 3, 2008

Yes I read in a recent edition of 911 & Porsche World that they benefit from being assembled by an Audi workforce, saying that comparing to more modern Porsche's to those made by Audi, they show their 'subtly different way of doing things', not having a more modern Porsche to compare to, its difficult to form an opinion on that.

944 man · Oct 3, 2008

The Valmet-built Finnish Boxsters were better too.....

Fen · Oct 3, 2008

I had the *ahem* pleasure of driving a 1993 Audi 80 for the second half of last year, and it was screwed together in a very similar way to my 944. At the same time I had a 2003 Audi which replaced a 2002 BMW, and the Audi was significantly better built than the Beemer - which wasn't exactly "French" in its fit and finish either.

Guest · Oct 3, 2008

Totally off topic lads but what happened to the "Neckarsulm" plant when the production run of 944's finished....?

Is it still there or is it an IKEA or sommit...? [&:]

944s2 · Oct 3, 2008

The R8 among others is built there now - long way from building NSU's

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/03/autoblog-visits-the-audi-r8-factory-in-neckarsulm-germany/

Showing my age

Black_JPN · Oct 3, 2008

Comments like this always annoy me. Let us not forget the humble origins of the 911. Even the newest 911 with it's oval headlights, shape of the bonnet and engine in the rear is all largely thanks to the Beetle. The Porsche links to VAG have always been there for many of the models and still are. Afterall, Porsche own a huge chunk of VW and the Cayenne has commonality with the Tourag etc etc...

appletonn · Oct 3, 2008

Well mine's a Neckarsulm car and I'm proud[

]

The build quality of those 80's Audis (Quattro etc) was/is superb and I would say that my 944 is at least as well built as any car I have ever driven.

Fen · Oct 3, 2008

I once saw a T-shirt that said "real Porsches are air-cooled". A year or two afterwards I wanted it as a sticker to put in my 944 (doubly so when the 996 came out; the 993 was still the current 911 when I got my first 944 - just) but didn't ever see it again. I could have Rick make it I guess...

pauly · Oct 3, 2008

ORIGINAL: Fen

I had the *ahem* pleasure of driving a 1993 Audi 80 for the second half of last year, and it was screwed together in a very similar way to my 944. At the same time I had a 2003 Audi which replaced a 2002 BMW, and the Audi was significantly better built than the Beemer - which wasn't exactly "French" in its fit and finish either.

Around 5 years ago I had an Audi 80 2.6 estate as my everyday car, it was the best built car I've ever owned, not a spec of rust on it and it didn't use any oil. I sold it because I thought it was getting a bit leggy with 120k miles on it, on reflection a mistake.

944cabby · Oct 3, 2008

ORIGINAL: 944 man

Part of the deal to buy back the 924 design involved Porsche subbing assembly of the cars at the about to close NSU plant at Neckarsulm.

All series production 924s were built there, as were the 944s. Some 968s (later) were built in Stuttgart.

Did any of the early VW 924's make it into production/prototypes etc?

Copperman05 · Oct 3, 2008

No VW badged 924 were made, at least not further than the prototype stage, VW pulled out on the joint venture after the 73/74 oil crisis and change of senior managment. Porsche then bought the project off VW and went it alone...

Edd

graham.webb · Oct 3, 2008

The story I've heard is that, like many others, Porsche had quality problems in the 1980's. An unacceptably high proportion of 911s went straight from production into rectification before they could be shipped....worth remembering that small volume stuff may still have been hand built then. It's likely that quite apart from any inter company politics Porsche would have had a firm quality incentive to sub out the 944.

Don't forget that Porsche, Audi, and Mercedes Benz have made cars for each other over the years.

Worth reading the chapter on Porsche in "Lean Thinking" by Womack & Jones if you're interested.....some interesting stuff aboiut the Toyota system too.

Hilux · Oct 3, 2008

the Cayenne has commonality with the Tourag etc etc...

Yes, the body shell!

Quite why you`d pay a premium to drive a Porsche badged VW bodyshell (despite the Porsche mechanicals) is totally beyond me?

sawood12 · Oct 3, 2008

VW actually commissioned Porsche to design them a sports car for them to build and badge as a VW (a bit like their earlier collaboration, the 914), however in the late stages VW pulled out (due to high cost I think) and since Porsche had spent so much time on the design and 911 sales were waining they went ahead with production of the Porsche 924 anyway. In it's place VW came out with the Scirroco - a cheaper car as it was developed from the Golf chassis. Porsche took a VW engine to use in the 924 as they hadn't designed an engine for it as it was always intended to be a VW car with a VW engine.