944 S Suspension upgrade advice?

[Hallsy]

I'd like to tighten up the handling a little on my 88 944 S.

I don't know for sure without looking, but I'm pretty sure it is on original suspension (the yellow paint marks are still presetn/lined up on top of turrets) - and even though it rides and turns in well enough, I'm sure it could be better.

It feels a little soft, as though it leans a bit more than I'd expect.

What are my options being an '88 S? I'm guessing if I bought new I would have to buy inserts (unless buying new struts from Porsche), and if that's the case Koni's would be best? Are there any other options that come with a specific fitting kit to convert a sealed strut? Would it be an upgrade to fit S2 or Turbo struts/springs? I'm not adverse to second hand parts if in good condition. Maybe a second hand M030 setup.

As well as firming the damping up a bit, I'd also like to lower the car by 30mm or so - any suggestions for springs? The front end does look quite high (17" wheels with 205/50 R17 tyres) - higher than a Lux even. I know the RR is a little larger than standard setup, but it looks higher than that what that would push it up by. It's arguably a touch lower than it should be at the rear though, so maybe if I correct that, the front will come down a touch anyway.

I've been told 968 caster blocks are a good upgrade, especially with the 17" wheels. How about rebushing the front wishbones? Can you buy OE rubber bushes separately?

At low speeds I also have a slight knock from the steering, seems to be in a couple of places when turning through straight ahead, and only really hear/feel it at low speeds. Any suggestions for this? Steering u/j?

Any suggestions appreciated

 

[944 man]

The front wishbones are NLA (although Type911 still has them but theyre dear), so your choices are new wishbone including a free bush or polyurethane.

Bilstein dampers are better than Koni I think, whether inserts or complete units. Your other options are new OEM struts and dampers from Bert Gear or similar; KW V3 which is very expensive but very good; GAZ which is cheaper and less durable and susceptible to corrosion; SPAZ which can be alright but Ive seen someone have trouble for every person that gets it fitted and working without issue and its cheaper too (around £600 - £500 and maybe less for some models and types) and BC, which Im not familiar with.

 

[ChasR]

I have replied to your thread elsewhere , although 944 Man has evaluated the main points better than I could truth be told! Gaz Golds not being durable however could be debated. How is scam75 getting along with his? BC Racing coilovers seem to have a strange reputation on here, although on a friend's Honda S2000 along with a geometry it made for a lovely car on both track and road .

 

[Hallsy]

Thanks for the advice

Do the Bilstein inserts come with any kind of retainers like the Koni ones do?

Always used to hear that Gaz didn't last, but no experience myself. A friend of mine has BC coilovers on his Impreza and they ride quite nicely.

For some reason I'm no longer getting email notifications!!

 

[bighead]

Hallsy .....I have replaced my front with koni adjustable insert and the rear shocks with koni as well and replaced the front springs with spax lowered springs on my 944S .

car feels a lot settled now, no doubt the Kw or Gaz with give more adjustability though (but at a cost ) !!

I used the "S" as a hack/back up car ...so not use in "anger" in any shape or form though so no need for trick suspension setup( I have other toys for that )

 

[ChasR]

If I were to uprate the suspension on a 944 I would would probably consider them in this order from initial research:

1)Konis
2)Bilstein B6s
3)BC Coilovers
4)Gaz Golds

Granted Gaz are not cheap, but they do seem to represent a great halfway house between the Konis and the KWs etc. BCs seem to be great value as well (I think they quoted me around £500-600 when I had the S2 ).

 

[andy watson]

Hi Andy,

Sounds like your having fun []

I would have thought that your front struts would be the same as mine, sealed units and therefore need complete units for replacement
You might want to have a look at my thread......... http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=730124

Now I have them set up the Spax kit is probably good value for money and is far better than 25 year old units, the only thing I would say is don't bother with the RSX kit with the rear coilovers!

 

[JagdHamster]

I was a very early adopter of of Bilstein's B12 kit (or "Professional Cornering System", which uses B6 dampers and matched Eibach springs) on my Audi RS4 V6 and the transformation was superb. It went from rock-hard and jiggly to "breathing" over the road amazingly comfortably, but with little roll/pitch. Sounds to me a lot like what people want out of a non-track 944 and at only £100 a corner I think they're a bargain; less than half the cost of comparable-quality adjustables and 3-year warranty, too, I think. The B12 kit has now become almost the standard replacement suspension for daily-driven RS4s.

Interestingly, Lotus use Bilsteins and they are an (excellent) option on the suspension of MX-5s as well; the balance between comfort and handling is simply sublime. Also, one 600BHP RS4 used to go to track days on B6s (B12) and they were superb there as well! Uprating the Rear ARB was also extremely effective; there was far less understeer. Sound familiar?

My own conundrum is whether to get my rock-hard M030 Konis rebuilt, or just change to B6s. Sadly Eibach springs are not available for the 944; if they were then the decision to fit B12 (B6s) would be made in an instant. But B6s alone may well be the answer and I'd highly recommend them.

Russ

 

[zcacogp]

Tell me more about the Bilstein option Russ, that sounds interesting. Bilstein always used to make the best-quality suspension ut kits for the later 944's have always had to be DIY'd (Olli Snellman on here does some.) Is this what you are talking about?

ORIGINAL: 944 man
SPAZ which can be alright but ...

>Snigger< ... I think you meant Spax! []


Oli.

 

[944 man]

Im talking about SPAX, but I intended to write SPAZ. []

 

[JagdHamster]

Hi Oli,
It might be, although the rear looks like no DIY needed:

As per my RS4 I looked at the Bilstein online catalogue.

For all 944s go here: http://web1.carparts-cat.com/default.aspx?11=18&14=4&10=5FEBA009C9864A60A8EFCE4BB4D1CD6B018004&12=102&52=1&30=92&31=208

For my 89 Turbo I then go to here: http://web1.carparts-cat.com/default.aspx?230=1&36=0&35=171&32=2986&34=0,100121&14=4&10=5FEBA009C9864A60A8EFCE4BB4D1CD6B018004&12=130

and clicking on the link marked "Bil_001439" gives you the options.

Shopping basket
34-000403 Shock Absorber BILSTEIN - B6 SPORT
Fitting Position Front Axle; Suspension Strut Insert; Single Tube Upside Down; Top pin; for susp. strut manufact. Boge;

24-020527 Shock Absorber BILSTEIN - B6 SPORT
Fitting Position Rear Axle; Gas Pressure; Monotube; Top eye; Bottom eye;

Under General Information it says: for bolted struts only
Under Details is says: Gas Pressure Fitting Position Front Axle, for susp. strut manufact. Boge

So it looks to me like the rear is straight-forward, but the front would have to be an insert

However, there's a good guide here:

Paragon guide

Porscheshop list a Bilstein damper kit as well, but only for early models: Porscheshop


There's a good Rennlist thread here: Rennlist

Not sure that any of this applies to M030 cars, though.....SP Suspension charge £45+parts for M030 rebuild and that seems pretty reasonable to me; it's likely I'll just go that route.

 

[944 man]

It seems too cheap to be true! Excellent if its right and they do a good job. Do you have details of the firm, please?

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: JagdHamster

Not sure that any of this applies to M030 cars, though.....SP Suspension charge £45+parts for M030 rebuild and that seems pretty reasonable to me; it's likely I'll just go that route.

Sounds good - as long as the parts bill isn't too high...

presume that's cost per damper

 

[JagdHamster]

Yes that's per damper; I phoned Shaun (Pickering, of SP Suspension) last week. He's away for a couple of weeks now, but I think this is the way to go.

http://www.koni.uk.com/home/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=76&Itemid=126

Hope it helps and form an orderly queue

Russ

 

[JagdHamster]

Actually I remember it's even more reasonable than it appears; they take a look at it for free. If the estimated cost is too high, they will not do any work, nor charge you!

Seems eminently fair to me and as a result, they're very likely to get my business.

Russ

 

[Hallsy]

Probably worth asking what is 'usually' replaced parts wise, as I'd imagine the £45 is pretty much a labour rate.

There's an M030 set on ebay at the moment, but not really knowing the going rate - I didn't know whether they were a reasonable price or not.

I think I'm probably going to go down either OE replacements or Bilstein B6's (I think they are a touch cheaper than the Koni's, but need to find out if they supply all is needed to convert the front sealed strut). I checked my roll bars and I have a 25.5mm up front and 18m at the rear. The ARB bushes look pretty swollen so I'll be changing these and probably fitting some of the support brackets. Are poly ARB bushes worthwhile?

I also have a pair of 968 castor blocks on the way.

 

[andy watson]

968 Castor Mounts ------Smart purchase, world of difference

 

[Masher]

I upgraded to Gaz Golds for my 944 track car and they are fantastic on the track BUT I would never choose them for a car used mostly on the road. The ride is simply too unrefined ( choppy). I have Bilstein PSS 10 coil overs on my 964 which are sublime - road and track.
Cheers
Mick

 

[charlieb]

FWIW I am in the throws of getting round to having my car booked in to centre of gravity.

Looking at B6 fitted and fettled, for me it sounds like the way to go and will keep things broadly stock looking I hope.

I know design 911 have the B6 kit itself for around £450 (fronts are inserts) and then add on some stock springs I suppose.

When done will let you know how it goes. []

Cheers

 

[JagdHamster]

Good choice!

CG get rave reviews. They'll be doing all the fitting as well as set-up?

Russ