944 S2 vs M135i?

[George Elliott]

Ed thanks for the comparison, there are few modern replacements for a 944 - often I think there are none. Is the engine sound you refer to one of these synthesised efforts, through the speakers or a pipe behind the bulkhead?? I have to confess, an Alpina B3 with its twin Turbo straight 6 and an auto box is a nice idea for a soft quick comfy cruiser, but big bucks and would cost more in year 1 than a good 951. I would rate a 911 flat 6 better than any 944 4 cylinder, and an M3 6 cylinder engine on song is pretty impressive. But there are also nice fours, an Escort BDA from the 70's, Lotus Sunbeam, E30 M3, (all naturally aspirated) or a 951 with 3" straight thru system do have a certain character. Do you think you will revert to a Porsche, that GT3 comment [] or a really nice 944 turbo, they have no problem making 3 or 400 hp, with a few mods, and ultimately there is no substitute for genuine character as opposed to a sound pipe. George 944t

 

[ChasR]

It is great to hear a comparison from you Edd . Oddly enough I drove an M235i Auto the other day (I understand that they are the same as a 135i (which is what I wanted to drive) but are a Coupe). I would agree with much of what you have said in all honesty. The interior is a pleasant place to be in all honesty. As for the engine that is superb. There is no detectable lag (at least in auto form) with the engine pulling very well to the redline! Whilst it seems to pull well it is surprising how frugal it can be (relatively speaking), making for this car being a vaguely sensible proposition. The gearbox is excellent as well. In Sport mode the car feels sharp with a precise throttle throttle response and with the pace to match. In either auto or manual mode (which you can quite easily slip into on the move via the paddles on the steering wheel) it is a joy to drive with smooth and well timed changes. Around town Sport mode can become a little tedious (the car feels as if it simply wishes for you to stab on the loud pedal (a touch of it results with you being propelled forwards, Eco mode makes things a little less frantic around town, and makes things more of a relaxed affair. So those are the plus points . Are there downsides. This depends much on what you want. I guess one issue with the M135i is that that the average punter cannot differentiate between a stock M-Sport 1 series and an M135i. It would seem that owners of 118d M-Sport models cannot either ("my car is the same as yours, but mine is more frugal innit?" seems to be the usual response). Whilst some firms like AC Scnitzer have attempted to address the 'sleeper appeal of the M135i may appeal to others . Certainly the 944 seems to attract more attention, at least these days (or maybe my exhaust is a little antisocial- but some waves and a thumbs up must mean something). The handling is strange as well. BMW have clearly taken its cars towards the direction of efficiency, be it emissions or MPG figures. This is evident in the M135i. Whilst the handling is great the steering did feel a little wierd down some country roads I am quite used to driving down when compared to previous cars. The other bugbear is how the car feels. Driven normally the M135i feels no different to a normal 6 pot BMW. It makes all of the right noises and behaves well on the road for the best part. A chap I know in the motoring industry feels this is the case too, even with the older cars like the E34 M5 3.6, where he felt they required to be driven hard to truly enjoy them as well as to exploit their potential. Are they a good car though? Definitely. As much character as a 944? I guess this is obvious, but for a modern car they are a great steer. One more thing Ed. Shall you be joining us on our informal get together in Whitechapel? .

 

[T3rra]

Thanks Pete, I don't no if you could hear turbo wine as it builds up un load before positive boost builds. Been told it can be quite firey afair not little snaps and bangers like pops like huge dragon breath flames. Must say sounds like he should off got a turbo before s2 and he would probably still have it[8|]

 

[Copperman05]

ORIGINAL: George Elliott Ed Is the engine sound you refer to one of these synthesised efforts, through the speakers or a pipe behind the bulkhead?? Do you think you will revert to a Porsche, that GT3 comment [] or a really nice 944 turbo, they have no problem making 3 or 400 hp, with a few mods, and ultimately there is no substitute for genuine character as opposed to a sound pipe.

The M135i (and current M3/4, M5, etc) does have synthesised engine noise piped into the cabin, mainly due to the amount of soundproofing. But in all honesty you wouldn't notice it unless told. Right now the exhaust has been modified to a BCS turbo back with powervalve which essentially makes it a straight through system when on boost. There is no doubt however that the engine sound very real and pretty good on the outside. [link=http://www.filedropper.com/bcsturbobackexhaustsound]Sound file of my M lite here[/link] I'd love a GT3 but the £3000-£5000 a year running costs makes it an unjustifiable proposition at present, although little depreciation would obviously offset that. For now I'm very happy with the M135i, every journey is an event, like a tuned 944 turbo it punches well above its weight, mines currently at nearly 400hp and 430lbft so its bit of a beast! Its certainly quicker than the M3 in the videos posted and evenly matched with the 470hp C63. on tour. All that and no lag, whats not to like? (Well apart from the aforementioned[]) Edd

 

[TTM]

Still sounds like you miss the chassis feedback from the 944... I drive a 120d with M suspension quite often and although it may make a great everyday car I think I would get bored with it quite quickly, even with 400hp. It's alo impossibly heavy for a "small" format car, and the steering feel is just [:-]

 

[Copperman05]

Perhaps your right and I suppose its an obvious result for proper sportscar vs family hatch with big engine and decent brakes, but back in a 944 I would miss the things I now have in the M lite. Hence the want for a GT3 which has all the noise, poise and chassis balance one could ask for...

 

[Ex Skyline]

Your comments weren't taken as "inflammatory" Edd. I was just being my usual rude, pig ignorant and, obnoxious self [8|]...[]. Yes Terry, Edd certainly should of bought a '44 Turbo instead of a S2, then he wouldn't of moved over to the "Dark Side" []. Edd, my mate has just bought a GT3 RS Replica in Red for not much money. It is a lovely car and, as you say, perfectly set up but, for some reason it just didn't do it for me [8|]. He paid about thirty grand for his one so, you probably could afford it on what the Old Bill pay you in London!![]

 

[Copperman05]

Ha, I wish!

 

[zcacogp]

Edd, Hello, really good to read your post. I have often wondered how you got on with that M135i and how it compared with your S2; your post answers precisely that question! Reading between the lines you sound almost slightly regretful about the change - is that really the case? (Or was it just politeness given the forum you are posting on? [] ) I agree about the engine noise; there is nothing wrong with an inline 4-pot, they sound good. However i-4 is a very common engine configuration and hence something (anything!) else will sound appealing in it's difference. The engine in an S2 does a fine enough job, but really doesn't sound any more interesting than 85% of the other cars on the road. I can well believe that the BMW will sound better, and am glad yours appeals to you. But I do have to say that if it was mine I would be very disappointed that BMW saw fit to augment the engine noise artificially - although all of us 944 owners will be able to achieve much the same thing with one of these; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIZwlMCbHzk [] I suspect your comments about modern cars lacking the feel of a 944 are spot on. I fear we are victims of several things with this; emissions regulations requiring such monstrosities as electric power steering, safety regulations requiring more and more weight and the simple fact that driving feel is something that doesn't appeal to most people, can't be measured or boasted about, and hence is not something that manufacturers will bother trying to achieve. I wonder whether there will emerge a small group of niche manufacturers who keep concerning themselves with such anachronisms, while the mainstream companies (and I count Porsche in this group) simply supply to the lowest common denominator. I was lucky enough to have a decent drive of an F-type the other day and, while it was a lovely machine, my S2 was more enjoyable to navigate down a road with any form of bend. The F-type was doubtless (much) quicker, gripped better, probably used less fuel and would be much, much safer in a crash. However I didn't come away thinking that I wanted one, and my credit card stayed firmly in my pocket. (Sad as it sounds, disappointment was a stronger emotion in my heart than desire - as well as an amazement at the sheer size of the thing!) And I see you remember this place well Edd!

ORIGINAL: Copperman05 Don't get me wrong the S2 on song is no slouch, but its no turbo!

Dead right it's no turbo - it's much, much better than that! [] Oli.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

driving feel is something that doesn't appeal to most people, can't be measured or boasted about, and hence is not something that manufacturers will bother trying to achieve.

They seem to be intent on going either-side of driving "pleasure", without wanting to make cars that are fun, but useable. Either cars are set up to be comfortable, but with no steering feel, and terminal understeer the default handling, or they have to set some new record at the 'Ring, making for a very bad road car.The new Civic Type R is supposed to set the hot hatch record by some margin, but that just fills me with dread as to how it'll drive on pot-holed British roads, and whether you'd want to get in it every day. [&o]

 

[Neil Haughey]

Well I don't know, French hatchbacks still seem to do it to some degree but yes most cars are pretty dead feeling these days but the French at least try to keep the handling balance and some steering feel in their small cars. The Vauxhall Insignia I had for a weekend last year was pretty amazing in its dead feel and handling, almost crashed the thing understeering into a hedge. It actually makes cars more dangerous by not having any driver feedback. Maybe I just hate anything GM.

 

[Copperman05]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp Edd, Hello, really good to read your post. I have often wondered how you got on with that M135i and how it compared with your S2; your post answers precisely that question! Reading between the lines you sound almost slightly regretful about the change - is that really the case? (Or was it just politeness given the forum you are posting on? [] ) I agree about the engine noise; there is nothing wrong with an inline 4-pot, they sound good. However i-4 is a very common engine configuration and hence something (anything!) else will sound appealing in it's difference. The engine in an S2 does a fine enough job, but really doesn't sound any more interesting than 85% of the other cars on the road. I can well believe that the BMW will sound better, and am glad yours appeals to you. But I do have to say that if it was mine I would be very disappointed that BMW saw fit to augment the engine noise artificially - although all of us 944 owners will be able to achieve much the same thing with one of these; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIZwlMCbHzk [] I suspect your comments about modern cars lacking the feel of a 944 are spot on. I fear we are victims of several things with this; emissions regulations requiring such monstrosities as electric power steering, safety regulations requiring more and more weight and the simple fact that driving feel is something that doesn't appeal to most people, can't be measured or boasted about, and hence is not something that manufacturers will bother trying to achieve. I wonder whether there will emerge a small group of niche manufacturers who keep concerning themselves with such anachronisms, while the mainstream companies (and I count Porsche in this group) simply supply to the lowest common denominator. I was lucky enough to have a decent drive of an F-type the other day and, while it was a lovely machine, my S2 was more enjoyable to navigate down a road with any form of bend. The F-type was doubtless (much) quicker, gripped better, probably used less fuel and would be much, much safer in a crash. However I didn't come away thinking that I wanted one, and my credit card stayed firmly in my pocket. (Sad as it sounds, disappointment was a stronger emotion in my heart than desire - as well as an amazement at the sheer size of the thing!) And I see you remember this place well Edd!

ORIGINAL: Copperman05 Don't get me wrong the S2 on song is no slouch, but its no turbo!

Dead right it's no turbo - it's much, much better than that! [] Oli.

Hi Oli, Sorry for the late reply. I can honestly say I have no regrets about the change. And yes perhaps I was a little polite , its would be unwise to come in here and boast about the new car. It was interesting to me to see how the two cars differed and the 944 came out pretty well so I thought I would share my thoughts with you all. To be honest I think the two cars have a lot in common, both are practical hatchbacks, have a good balanced chassis, have loads of grip, good driving positions, not much room for adults in the back in either (M135i obviously has more but its still tight). Neither car (S2 at least) has an LSD (unless rare spec on S2 or expensive retro fit for M135i). In tuned turbo form both have the potential to embarrass more exotic metal with all out pace, the M135i does it with almost no lag (maximum torque comes in at 1400rpm.) Where they are different is that 944 has great chassis and steering feedback and M135i has a great engine and noise/drama to go with it. Don't get me wrong the M135i is very capable, would probably equal or even exceed the 944 around the corners, it has bags and bags of grip with the Michelin Super Sports tyres. But you have to rely on tyre squeal rather than anything felt through the steering to know the car is reaching its limits of grip. It still works that way just perhaps not as rewarding as feeling the road surface through your fingers. As electric assisted systems go it is one of the better ones around, stiffening up in sport mode adds some welcome resistance but true feedback is still absent. Unusually for a BMW the M135i has excellent brakes as standard, in fact it uses the same callipers front and rear as the new M3/4 (which also has bigger discs BTW), I've not experienced any significant fade with the stock pads either. The 8 speed auto gearbox works like any other auto when pootling about, however locking up the torque converter makes it mimic a dual clutch box when in manual mode, banging in the gears in a fraction of a second, its the first auto box I've ever used/bought and it seriously changed my perception that a manual box is often best. Having both hands on the wheel at all times makes for better control too when pushing on. It works brilliantly with the N55 engine BMW have pared it with. Sounds epic on the upshifts imo with a proper parp/crack between the gears. The M135i and 944 have different strengths, my (tuned) M135i easily out paces an E92 M3 and almost matches it around the corners too, flat out it will keep up with almost anything and there is some childish satisfaction in surprising more expensive metal with its subtle looks yet impressive pace. The 944 S2 is much more subtle, more fun and rewarding to drive at slower speeds, but without the aural involvement one gets in the beemer. Would I go back to a 944, perhaps but I suspect as a track car, as I said before, if I were to go back to the 944 I undoubtedly would miss what I love about the M135i and even decent steering feel might not make up for that... Edd

 

[Ex Skyline]

If you do go back to a 944 Edd, try a Turbo [8D]!! You'll soon be taking that beemer down the breakers.....[][][]!!!

 

[Copperman05]

Your turbo up for sale again then Pete....?

 

[Ex Skyline]

Ha, ha!! You have been staying in touch haven't you Edd []! No mate, not any more. Going the "whole hogg" with this one now. It will probably take a couple of years but, it will be worth it for the grin factor [8D][][]!!

 

[andrew_churcher]

Nice write up Edd. Sounds like you are enjoying the car and definitely felt quick when you took me for a spin. Couple of nice track orientated turbos for sale around 8k.................[] http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PORSCHE-944-TURBO-se-1989-250bhp-62k-m030-lsd-993t-big-reds-X4-18-alloys-/331243156959?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item4d1fa175df http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/944/porsche-944-turbo-1990/2005655?isexperiment=true