944 Shocks

[924Srr27l]

Do a search on this forum - there are plenty of threads about shock absorbers.
For what it's worth, I reckon that the best option on the market at the moment is the Bilstein inserts. Yes it's a hassle to have the struts adapted to take them but it's so, so worth while. They are more compliant than the Koni inserts but give a significantly taut ride. It's hard to explain but I knew the difference between the Konis and the Bilsteins the moment I got into the car I don't even need to drive it to feel the difference.
My only regret with the Bilsteins is that I didn't do it 8 years ago. I fitted the Koni's as they were cheaper and, in retrospect, I shouldn't have done.

- Twin tube design (koni)
- Mono Tube Upside down design (Bilstein)

http://iscsuspension-na.com/monotube-vs-twin-tube-difference-better/

R

 

[zcacogp]

- Twin tube design (koni)
- Mono Tube Upside down design (Bilstein)

http://iscsuspension-na.com/monotube-vs-twin-tube-difference-better/

Interesting article, thanks for the link.

 

[944 man]

Thanks Paul. I am now wondering who 'Dave Clark' is...

 

[924Srr27l]

R

 

[supersport]

I thought it would be nice to provide a quick update.

In the end we decided to leave the shocks/springs as they are and just poly bush the anti-roll bars along with a couple of other jobs, like the universal joint in the steering and nice fully geo set up.

It turned out that the front anti-roll wasn't properly connected the chassis any more so needed a bit of welding.

We picked the car up yesterday and OMG it is a completely different car and such a dream to drive. You can now push around the bends in way I hadn't experienced before it is just so planted and sure footed. The front end stays where it is supposed to and just does what you want, and no more knocks and bangs on the bumps.

I suspect that the only other few 944s I drove must have suffered similar issues, their front ends never felt entirely stable, and these were for sale in dealers.

So the moral of story, is don't put things off that need doing, you have no idea what you are missing.

The car is an absolute joy to drive, even the wife is happy with it, never seen her drive so quick!!

 

[944 man]

There was a poster last year bought new S2 shocks from Porsche & they turned out to be duff - manufactured 2003 IIRC...

That may have been me, on TIPEC http://forums.tipec.net/v....php?f=25&t=20971. OEM struts may be available, but have not been manufactured for many years. Front struts are December 2003 & springs are March 2004. I bought some from OPC Tewkesbury and they were way past their best so I got a refund.

I went for Bilstein B6 inserts in the end, which requires cutting and welding of the strut. If you're interested, the engineer who did mine is also willing to do the same for others - that's the cutting and welding, not fitting the whole thing. Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgrRt0Hyhr0 for the whole thing, start to finish. I also know where to get the threaded inserts that you would need.

Cheers,
Bryan

What sort of price please Bryan?

 

[944 man]

From Dave with the Rothmans stickered S2, too, and probably a good deal more keenly priced. Possibly 'Dave Clark' but forum names and real names don't mix easily for me.

That's right Simon, Dave Oneill can get them made as well, he will also sell you a set of tubes converted ready for you to put your inserts into.

cheers, Paul

Do you have contact details for him please Paul? Tried FB, but failed.

 

[924Srr27l]

That's right Simon, Dave Oneill can get them made as well, he will also sell you a set of tubes converted ready for you to put your inserts into.
cheers, Paul

I'm looking to have made early strut legs threaded for 2.5ID Coils, would Dave be of any assistance here ?

I have found Bilstein USA do a universal Strut, which is ready for any bottom Bracket to be welded on and the top stem
machined and threaded. Different Valving versions available (Fixed Bump & Rebound)
These are not available in the Uk (I've asked Billy UK and was told to buy direct from the US)

http://www.bilsteinus.com/products/motorsports/universal-motorsports-strut/

R

 

[924Srr27l]

I thought it would be nice to provide a quick update.
It turned out that the front anti-roll wasn't properly connected the chassis any more so needed a bit of welding.

A hanging bracket ? or

R

 

[supersport]

I thought it would be nice to provide a quick update.
It turned out that the front anti-roll wasn't properly connected the chassis any more so needed a bit of welding.

A hanging bracket ? or

R

To be honest I couldn't tell you, sorry.

 

[Briggy]

There was a poster last year bought new S2 shocks from Porsche & they turned out to be duff - manufactured 2003 IIRC...

That may have been me, on TIPEC http://forums.tipec.net/v....php?f=25&t=20971. OEM struts may be available, but have not been manufactured for many years. Front struts are December 2003 & springs are March 2004. I bought some from OPC Tewkesbury and they were way past their best so I got a refund.

I went for Bilstein B6 inserts in the end, which requires cutting and welding of the strut. If you're interested, the engineer who did mine is also willing to do the same for others - that's the cutting and welding, not fitting the whole thing. Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgrRt0Hyhr0 for the whole thing, start to finish. I also know where to get the threaded inserts that you would need.

Cheers,
Bryan

What sort of price please Bryan?

Which bit Simon? The Bilsteins, the threaded collars or the cutting and welding?

Cheers,
Bryan

 

[924Srr27l]

Bilstein B6 Insert Info

There are 2 versions which will fit 924S and all 944 models with unsealed struts or modified struts as referred to on this thread:

- 34 - 000403 (150/95)
- 34 - 001042 (150/120)

Valve ratings:
The first number is the Rebound force (written as one tenth the damping force)
So 150 is 1500 Newtons at 0.52 m/s
And the second number is the Compression force which above is either 95 or 120 (950 or 1200) Newtons at 0.52 m/s
Higher numbers do mean higher (firmer) damping forces.

The Bilstein Catalogue lists both options (150/120) & (150/95) front Inserts for:
924S
3.0 S2 Cabriolet

But only the harder (150/120) for:
968 & 968 Turbo

They list the Softer (150/95) rebound valving for models:
944 81 - 87 (2.5 / 2.5S / 2.5Turbo / 2.7 / 3.0S2)

I'm unsure why they offer both versions for the lighter 924S and 944 Cabrio but only the stiffer on the 968?
And then only the softer version for the 944 Turbo's & 3.0S2 ?

I can't see any reason why the optional harder insert can be used on any model should anybody wish to? as long as it's a non sealed Strut, or one that can be cut and shut!

I've currently got the softer versions fitted but they are Harsh for road use on a 1040kg car, on a stock 3.0S2 (360kg heavier) they will be much more comfortable, and the harder versions also fine I'm sure.

R

 

[924Srr27l]

I thought it would be nice to provide a quick update.
It turned out that the front anti-roll wasn't properly connected the chassis any more so needed a bit of welding.

A hanging bracket ? or
R

To be honest I couldn't tell you, sorry.

Ok, It Must be that it's the only part that connects or holds the bar to the chassis.

R

 

[Tommys86]

On the ARB I suspect it's the weld repair job on the hanger as they tend to split - some ARB brackets may have prevented that excessive flex!

I'm interested to know why do people go down the route of cutting or welding to make something fit rather than trying to source direct swap? Or have I missed something obvious?

For example seen Spax Coilover kit for S2 - circa £742 for the set from Tweeks or are these other options much cheaper? I saw one comment about "£600 for a pair" so £750 for a set isn't too horrendous?.... (I say that with the thought pattern being suspension isn't going to be cheap - I don't have spare £742!). Plus you get adjustable ride height and dampering without dismantling - no mention of cutting and welding! But no one seems to mention these? Are they rubbish because sure alot of other racers run Spax's, or KWs for that matter but they are more pricey so could understand being off the cards for a daily runner!

Tom

 

[924Srr27l]

On the ARB I suspect it's the weld repair job on the hanger as they tend to split - some ARB brackets may have prevented that excessive flex!
I'm interested to know why do people go down the route of cutting or welding to make something fit rather than trying to source direct swap? Or have I missed something obvious?
For example seen Spax Coilover kit for S2 - circa £742 for the set from Tweeks or are these other options much cheaper? I saw one comment about "£600 for a pair" so £750 for a set isn't too horrendous?.... (I say that with the thought pattern being suspension isn't going to be cheap - I don't have spare £742!). Plus you get adjustable ride height and dampering without dismantling - no mention of cutting and welding! But no one seems to mention these? Are they rubbish because sure alot of other racers run Spax's, or KWs for that matter but they are more pricey so could understand being off the cards for a daily runner!
Tom

Oh NO ! i can't believe you've mentioned those Treacherous ARB Support brackets ! the thought of such a component sends chills!

I disagree on the general perception that Welding is something that is not ideal!

I mean I've worked in and still are involved in several industries like Aviation, Military, Marine and Automotive (Road cars and Racing F1, WRC et..etc.) and many Components are Welded together, also many items that break are also welded and repaired as often the cost to repair is less and a welding repair done by professionals (And this is the Key element) is also A1.

I work for a company that has repaired hundreds of alloy wheels for 10 years now, not only saving hundreds of people money instead of buying new but also with a 100% reliability record, they are all Crack tested and done by a Certified Ex Aviation Welder.

Spax have been around for many years but have always been a Budget Damper and a Budget derived company compared to the what was the Big 2 or 3 when i first worked in Suspension & Motorsport (1995) Koni, Bilstein and even Sachs / Boge were regarded
then and now as better quality and performing products.

The Spax RSX Kit is not in the same ballpark as a Bilstein or K/W which used to use Koni Inserts.

I've just changed Front Inserts from Spax Sport with Kyrpton Gas (Superman has this after a curry!) to Bilstein B6
and the Billy's have much better control, then are more harsh but the plus side the damping is sharper and quicker to return than the spax.
R

 

[Tommys86]

Thanks I see, and after looking at it twice i think I've mistaken myself with Gaz Shocks Gold people tend to run at the tracks, which are more and look certainly "beefer"

Tempted to look at mine in closer detail, as ive not had this car that long, but history shows in 2015 had "replaced front shockers" and "modify struts to castall inserts"?? not sure about the hand writing around "castall" and the only parts listed says "Koni inserts" @ £360?

Sounds like i didnt get shocks but just the inserts?

Does that make sense to anyone? Labour was £120... total bill came to £624

 

[944Turbo]

The inserts replaced the important parts - the bits that do the damping and the bits that wear - the koni inserts were a popular swap a few years back, and the struts required modification for them to fit

 

[924Srr27l]

Thanks I see, and after looking at it twice i think I've mistaken myself with Gaz Shocks Gold people tend to run at the tracks, which are more and look certainly "beefer"
Tempted to look at mine in closer detail, as ive not had this car that long, but history shows in 2015 had "replaced front shockers" and "modify struts to castall inserts"?? not sure about the hand writing around "castall" and the only parts listed says "Koni inserts" @ £360?
Sounds like i didnt get shocks but just the inserts?
Does that make sense to anyone? Labour was £120... total bill came to £624

Gaz are very track orientated even though they list Road coilovers they are very hard for road use, I spoke to them about my build and they
even told me their valving would be way too stiff for my lightweight car especially for Road use.

You did get shock absorbers the Koni units are an Insert which fits inside the strut leg, not sure what Castell is ? I bet it's "Install" ?

£90 each for 4 shocks sounds like they may be Koni classic Red, and not the Yellow Sports?

R

 

[944 man]

There was a poster last year bought new S2 shocks from Porsche & they turned out to be duff - manufactured 2003 IIRC...

That may have been me, on TIPEC http://forums.tipec.net/v....php?f=25&t=20971. OEM struts may be available, but have not been manufactured for many years. Front struts are December 2003 & springs are March 2004. I bought some from OPC Tewkesbury and they were way past their best so I got a refund.

I went for Bilstein B6 inserts in the end, which requires cutting and welding of the strut. If you're interested, the engineer who did mine is also willing to do the same for others - that's the cutting and welding, not fitting the whole thing. Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgrRt0Hyhr0 for the whole thing, start to finish. I also know where to get the threaded inserts that you would need.

Cheers,
Bryan

What sort of price please Bryan?

Which bit Simon? The Bilsteins, the threaded collars or the cutting and welding?

Cheers,
Bryan

I have the B6s and Im interested in a conversion price, for all the close tolerance cutting and welding.

 

[Briggy]

I have the B6s and Im interested in a conversion price, for all the close tolerance cutting and welding.

Simon,

See my first posting on - http://forums.tipec.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=21325

Any questions, give me a shout.

Cheers,
Bryan