944 suspension set up- what is the best for track use?

[Diver944]

Patrick in Australia has the KW Clubsports but I think he had problems and was looking to change. A quick search of all his posts in the 944 forum with the word clubsports gives this:

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/searchpro.asp?phrase=clubsport&author=333pg333&forumid=15&topicreply=both&message=body&timeframe=%3E&timefilter=0&language=single&top=300&criteria=AND&submitbutton=+OK+

Pretty much everyone keeps the torsion bars in place as setup with them removed appears to be problematical. Kevin at EMC will be a good person to ask (if he is in a good mood [] )

 

[Eldavo]

So it's just me with the Clubsports then, and I live miles away from everyone else!

I'm taking the car on track on the 1st of June but can say that the car feels amazing when pushing on. You do actively avoid rough Tarmac, cat's eyes, dual carriageways, motorways, small children though. After an hour on a motorway I have to stop as my lower jaw aches due to straining the muscles trying to stop it chattering around. I'm not entirely sure how I'll cope when I goto the ring in late July.

I have solid top mounts as well which won't help of course and the car is very low too.

For my use of mainly fast road with the odd track day I'd have been better off with V3s but if your usage is the other way around then I can recommend the Clubsports.

Maybe I just need to man up a bit or try driving with my mouth closed!

 

[944 man]

Odd as it may sound Dav, my very harsh and stripped series one became far more bearable at approaching 100mph. Going faster can bring them all together and decrease harshness.

 

[Copperman05]

KW tout their KW Clubport as track biased coilovers that can be used on the road. In contrast to the KWV3's which are road coilovers that can be used on track. The Clubsports also come with adjustable top mounts iirc. I assume the Clubsports will have higher spring rates, both use the high speed valve tech KW are known for.

If it were me I would probably go with the KW Clubsports or EMC GG on a dedicated track car, I'm sure either would be pretty good, perhaps the KW a smidge better on the roads.

I have been advised against removal of the TB as it may just not be strong enough without, for dedicated track car this may be less of an issue, a few in the states seem to get away with it. A search on rennlist may give some more info.


Edd

 

[944 man]

I dont believe that it is, no matter what people say. I know that high-end 937s didnt use torsion bars, but they were re-engineered hand built SkunkWerk specials. The TB is used to locate, not just to spring. Its obvious from the exploded diagrams, I think.

 

[944Turbo]

Had a feeling Ohlins were also available (as are Leda and Bilstein) but googling Ohlins found this list here (click)

I have seen a photo of as broken rear trailing arm on a car running high rate coil overs without the torsion bars - not sure if this is common - there are not many people running torsion bar free.

Tony

 

[Neil Haughey]

One option I investigated but didn't buy as the money is more usefully spent elsewhere for me, is the couple or three options from Intrax. You have to deal with them direct from Holland but in the couple of e-mails I had with them I found them pretty really quick and informative in response. If my Gaz's misbehave again Intrax front struts built to my own damper rates will be ordered but I seem to have passed a bit of a reliability rubicon with both shocks and the car in general.

Yet another option is the possibility of Penske coilovers on the rear and a custom Penske setup on the front, the rears would be relatively easy but all I know about the fronts or even the possibility of them is from a conversation my brother had with Ian Gardiner (IG racing). He also sells AST monotube dampers which Paul Follet ran on his 968.

The attraction with the Intrax 1k2 monotubes is reasonable cost compared to the 3 and 4 way products which are all mega money regardless of who they are from.

 

[944 man]

When you refer to a rubicon, do you mean that youre past the worst of the unreliability, or more literally in that your financial commitment is now so deep that you are past te point of no return and that you are resigned to the monster in the garage consuming every iota of spare income for ever?

If the latter, then welcome to racing - youve finally arrived! []

 

[Masher]

I think you've unearthed some very bespoke options here which I fear are well beyond my budget and the moment you mention any sort of custom application I am wondering what on earth I'd ask for! Currently my budget is Gaz but the more I read (isn't the internet a dangerous thing!) the KW's seem to have a strong following making them a more desirable choice despite the extra cost.

I'm taking advantage of RPM's Saturday clinic this weekend to get an overall assessment of the car including the suspension so we'll see where we go from there.

Again, thanks for all the advice,
Mick

 

[Neil Haughey]

The Intrax kit is not bespoke, its fairly widely used on the continent but I don't know of anyone racing a Porsche on it here. Price wise is similar to the KW semi-race kit.

Simon I think you are right on both counts []. No seriously I have been surprised almost that the last 2 times I have driven the car (last September at Mallory and last Friday at Brands) it has been utterly consistent, not using a drop of fluid or giving any hint of a problem. I got so used to odd crazy things going wrong that its nice to have a car I can just use, take for example when the weld on the bottom of one of my struts went last May. I spoke to several people at the time that had never seen that before on the GAZ, the top seal going is fairly common but weld failure followed by all the oil seems to be fairly unheard off. I have had a habit of that, when my engine was dropping out after 30 min or so we found that the crank angle sensor whilst working had been crimped/bashed in and was probably like that from the factory 20+ years ago, again no one seems to have ever heard of that happening before.

Just need to get my head together and drive the thing consistently now, Friday was good fun but when you go into Paddock at 80 one lap then the next its more like 70 odd then you know it ain't happening. Still though felt great to get behind the wheel again and bring home a car in one piece rather than leaving Brands with an empty trailer.

 

[blease]

I gave my S2 to EMC. They fitted Gaz Gold and did all the settings for track work. It utterly transformed the car for a very reasonable £1500 outlay. I have driven to Spa and back in reasonable comfort but have to put up with clangs and bangs from the rear coil overs (they all do that sir). I avoid speed humps and the like. The chassis was then outperforming the tyres on the track...the next step was for a spare wheel set with road legal slicks (Michelin Pilot Cup Sport) which has taken the handling to the next level. The front turns in like a truffle hound...just sticks and sticks. And the rear can now keep the promise that the front makes with controllable oversteer rather the leeeeaaannnn....spin! Very happy with my mods so far. I can really appreciate the difference each step makes. And its not breaking the bank.

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: blease

I gave my S2 to EMC. They fitted Gaz Gold and did all the settings for track work. It utterly transformed the car for a very reasonable £1500 outlay. I have driven to Spa and back in reasonable comfort but have to put up with clangs and bangs from the rear coil overs (they all do that sir). I avoid speed humps and the like. The chassis was then outperforming the tyres on the track...the next step was for a spare wheel set with road legal slicks (Michelin Pilot Cup Sport) which has taken the handling to the next level. The front turns in like a truffle hound...just sticks and sticks. And the rear can now keep the promise that the front makes with controllable oversteer rather the leeeeaaannnn....spin! Very happy with my mods so far. I can really appreciate the difference each step makes. And its not breaking the bank.

Sounds exactly what you need Mick

 

[Masher]

ORIGINAL: edh

Sounds exactly what you need Mick

It does! I'll see what RPM say after the visit on Sat i.e. what is the list of jobs! Assuming everything else is OK it will come down to their cost of KW/Gaz vs EMC as described. In fairness to RPM they have serviced my 964 once (it was a big one!) but the car came back running like new so it gives me confidence in their capabilities. They have also built a few 944 track cars in the past so clearly have experience of the model.
Thanks again,
Mick

 

[edh]

yes, rpm would do a good job - there are a fair few of their track prepped cars around.

 

[CarreraRSR]

EMC or Centre Gravity for chassis set up?

My Gaz Golds were fitted and set up by EMC with no issues. I have now changed too much not to get it realigned and corner weighted. I have had a quote to re set my car by CG and is a full days work. Not had quote from EMC yet. Experiences please on performance v's value?!

 

[MarkK]

EMC,if you want to go quick around a track,results,results,results[]

 

[Copperman05]

I'm sure you would be happy with either, I've not used EMC but Chris at CG is a specialist in the area and suspension is all his does, all day, everyday. A session with him is like a course on geometry and the effects of adjustments on your car, he encourages you to ask questions, watch, work on the car, ask more questions. He's also a Porsche enthusiast to boot.


Edd

 

[CarreraRSR]

ORIGINAL: MarkK

EMC,if you want to go quick around a track,results,results,results[]

I know its a compromise and I'll probably sway towards a track setting more than a compliant road one, but I want it fast in all occasions !! []

PS turning the key on the new engine tomorrow so fingers crossed. Full geo to follow in the coming weeks once everything has settled in

 

[944 man]

Good luck Steve. Whats the engine spec and what sort of output are you hoping for?

 

[CarreraRSR]

ORIGINAL: 944 man

Good luck Steve. Whats the engine spec and what sort of output are you hoping for?

Here you go. http://forums.tipec.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13106&sid=234ef2e67c5af089e9f3cc10e85d409f&start=165 you saw the start of the thread. The last two pages gives you the final run down. Hoping for 210-220 on 0.7 bar. Will be boosted to 1.0-1.1 bar so who knows []