944 Turbo SE - Tuning Help !!!
- Thread starter 9212PT
- Start date
Well, that all depends on your goals, and has been pretty much covered earlier in this thread.
As for what to fit now, you should be able to fit everything except the FPR and the injectors - which you MUST NOT fit without new chips or a remap.
Only the DPW and the Apexi have any real ability to alter your power and you will need to fit these before going to Wayne.
However until he maps the car you will have no more fuel than standard so you MUST also set the boost to no more than standard. The AVC-R measures boost in kg/cm2 from memory, and in increments of 0.05 so set it to 0.75 or 0.8 at most.
Wayne will fit the FPR and/or injectors before mapping you.
Oh, and don't put that cone filter in front of the radiator!
Have fun.
As for what to fit now, you should be able to fit everything except the FPR and the injectors - which you MUST NOT fit without new chips or a remap.
Only the DPW and the Apexi have any real ability to alter your power and you will need to fit these before going to Wayne.
However until he maps the car you will have no more fuel than standard so you MUST also set the boost to no more than standard. The AVC-R measures boost in kg/cm2 from memory, and in increments of 0.05 so set it to 0.75 or 0.8 at most.
Wayne will fit the FPR and/or injectors before mapping you.
Oh, and don't put that cone filter in front of the radiator!
Have fun.
I should have added that if you subsequently want to do more than just turn up the boost with existing restrictions that you currently have, then your remap with Wayne kind of gets wasted....
If I were you, I would look at getting rid of the AFM for a MAF or MAP, and upgrade the turbo first. At least then you would be able to make use of your new injectors.
If I were you, I would look at getting rid of the AFM for a MAF or MAP, and upgrade the turbo first. At least then you would be able to make use of your new injectors.
I used some flexi pipe of the same diameter as the AFM for mounting my induction kit behind the headlight and using the original cold air feed. I also changed to an enclosed filter.
I have a spare length of tubing I bought but then didn't need, if its any use you can have it for the tenner I paid for it. If you want to take a look at how I've set my induction kit up just let me know as I'm only round the corner.
I have a spare length of tubing I bought but then didn't need, if its any use you can have it for the tenner I paid for it. If you want to take a look at how I've set my induction kit up just let me know as I'm only round the corner.
Can't exactly answer that.
Max bhp with the original turbo was just over 300. That was with std exhaust and AFM but MBC, DPW and Wayne Schofield remap at .95 bar.
I added the SFR turbo when I blew the original KKK up but kept the boost at .95 bar. Car felt quicker, but for £1k you want it to don't you, so could have been in my mind only!
However, after adding a LR intercooler, Guru chips, #55 injectors and ditching the AFM for a MAP conversion it made 330bhp at about 16-17psi. However, this was being held back by problems with the MAP system that I only managed to fix after the next turbo, and was still with the standard air box/intake & exhaust. I subsequently changed the chips to ProMax and also fitted the Apexi but saw no further improvement.
I would think if I put the SFR back on now I have fixed the MAP issues and can run 18psi it would be good for about 350.
It now also has the extra bits in my sig though! (mainly Intake & Exhaust)
I've not been to the dyno with the latest turbo, but I would hope that it will be around 380 - I still need to finish mapping it though.
Max bhp with the original turbo was just over 300. That was with std exhaust and AFM but MBC, DPW and Wayne Schofield remap at .95 bar.
I added the SFR turbo when I blew the original KKK up but kept the boost at .95 bar. Car felt quicker, but for £1k you want it to don't you, so could have been in my mind only!
However, after adding a LR intercooler, Guru chips, #55 injectors and ditching the AFM for a MAP conversion it made 330bhp at about 16-17psi. However, this was being held back by problems with the MAP system that I only managed to fix after the next turbo, and was still with the standard air box/intake & exhaust. I subsequently changed the chips to ProMax and also fitted the Apexi but saw no further improvement.
I would think if I put the SFR back on now I have fixed the MAP issues and can run 18psi it would be good for about 350.
It now also has the extra bits in my sig though! (mainly Intake & Exhaust)
I've not been to the dyno with the latest turbo, but I would hope that it will be around 380 - I still need to finish mapping it though.
vincematthews
Member
You forgot to add Cold Water to your list . . .
Its what the insurance company will pour on your project when you tell them . . . you are going to tell them? [
]
Its what the insurance company will pour on your project when you tell them . . . you are going to tell them? [
]
George Elliott
New member
Good Luck Paul,
Mark gave you some good advice,
My view is for 3.2litre technology JMG are the people to speak to, but if you are in the 280 to 400hp 951 market, then Promax will keep you right, as a lot of the folk on here are trying to[]
I would expect if things go well for you, (and Wayne has an excellent reputation), then your head gasket will last 6 months or 6000 miles, unless it is a recent one.
Promax would advise you on all that stuff
just my 2 penneth
as I said, good luck, enjoy the car when its done
George
944t
(and no, I am not on commission, just 1. my experience, and 2. not wishing to see you liquidate the pistons)
Mark gave you some good advice,
My view is for 3.2litre technology JMG are the people to speak to, but if you are in the 280 to 400hp 951 market, then Promax will keep you right, as a lot of the folk on here are trying to[
]I would expect if things go well for you, (and Wayne has an excellent reputation), then your head gasket will last 6 months or 6000 miles, unless it is a recent one.
Promax would advise you on all that stuff
just my 2 penneth
as I said, good luck, enjoy the car when its done
George
944t
(and no, I am not on commission, just 1. my experience, and 2. not wishing to see you liquidate the pistons)
AndrewS
Member
There are many different approaches that 944 Turbo owners have taken in their approach to tuning their cars and I would imagine that we have seen most of them.
The most common approach is where the wisdom and considerable experience of the established independents is ignored in the interests of attempting to save money and following the advice of others who's good faith suggestions may not liberate what was hoped for (I also accept and respect there are many individuals [some on this forum] who have achieved significant success going it alone).
Based on my experience and knowledge; misguided tuning can be a false economy and is very likely to result in disappointment and greater cost (I am not suggesting the OP is misguided, but this is in response to the statement: "i feel buying the parts seperate rather than the kits from promax & Jm will work out better, viewed them a while ago & from what i can see there's better to be had")
It is very easy to get 30+ bhp; just block the air line to the wastegate and disconnect the knock sensors; the performance will be improved immensely. The engine will of course eventually expire as it runs dangerously lean and suffers piston melt down.
The tried and tested solutions work; they may cost more up front but in the long term they will cost less. Why? Because the tuning is paid for at the outset and will continue to work with little to no risk for many years to come (assuming the base car was in good shape to begin with).
The above is purely my view and I respect the fact that anybody is at liberty to choose any approach they prefer. However, one fact applies which ever approach is taken: No matter what parts are bolted on, or modified - the engine still requires specific and accurate fuel delivery and ignition advance to perform safely. Ignore this final consideration and it will break.
Regards,
Andrew
The most common approach is where the wisdom and considerable experience of the established independents is ignored in the interests of attempting to save money and following the advice of others who's good faith suggestions may not liberate what was hoped for (I also accept and respect there are many individuals [some on this forum] who have achieved significant success going it alone).
Based on my experience and knowledge; misguided tuning can be a false economy and is very likely to result in disappointment and greater cost (I am not suggesting the OP is misguided, but this is in response to the statement: "i feel buying the parts seperate rather than the kits from promax & Jm will work out better, viewed them a while ago & from what i can see there's better to be had")
It is very easy to get 30+ bhp; just block the air line to the wastegate and disconnect the knock sensors; the performance will be improved immensely. The engine will of course eventually expire as it runs dangerously lean and suffers piston melt down.
The tried and tested solutions work; they may cost more up front but in the long term they will cost less. Why? Because the tuning is paid for at the outset and will continue to work with little to no risk for many years to come (assuming the base car was in good shape to begin with).
The above is purely my view and I respect the fact that anybody is at liberty to choose any approach they prefer. However, one fact applies which ever approach is taken: No matter what parts are bolted on, or modified - the engine still requires specific and accurate fuel delivery and ignition advance to perform safely. Ignore this final consideration and it will break.
Regards,
Andrew
DivineE
New member
Uh oh! Just read this thread and you sound like me 10 years ago! Over eager. If you do not start listening to advice and stop buying parts ASAP this thread IS going to end badly. I see you hearing and thanking good advice and then just going out and doing it your own way.
If you have been extremely lucky and have bought one of the few examples still with a good engine. Firstly well done. Secondly it will definitely still be down on power. Spend a day at a dyno first. Find the leaks, check the compression on the bores (scope the bores if possible). Once all is established and power is nearer 250 than 200 come back and talk about a plan to make 300. At the moment you are going to end up with standard power at best, more heat, more stress and dodgy fueling. Chips are mapped with the assumption the car is otherwise perfect. A 20+ year old turbo engine will not meet this criteria and it will not run properly until you fix this.
p.s. The DV stands for diverter valve, on the 944 you want to use a replacement re-circulating type. A dump valve which dumps the pressure to atmosphere is not a good replacement.
If you have been extremely lucky and have bought one of the few examples still with a good engine. Firstly well done. Secondly it will definitely still be down on power. Spend a day at a dyno first. Find the leaks, check the compression on the bores (scope the bores if possible). Once all is established and power is nearer 250 than 200 come back and talk about a plan to make 300. At the moment you are going to end up with standard power at best, more heat, more stress and dodgy fueling. Chips are mapped with the assumption the car is otherwise perfect. A 20+ year old turbo engine will not meet this criteria and it will not run properly until you fix this.
p.s. The DV stands for diverter valve, on the 944 you want to use a replacement re-circulating type. A dump valve which dumps the pressure to atmosphere is not a good replacement.
Suffolk944
Moderator
All I would say is that its not just a case of bolting on some bits. If you are not properly au fait with the finer details of engine tuning and dont have the equipment to carry it out I would strongly suggest you let one of the experienced and successful Indies who know their way round the 951 do it rather than potentially let yourself into a whole world of pain by attempting a Heath Robinson DIY solution.
simkin911
New member
Firstly, I'm a novice and know very little. I recently bought a Turbo ('91 and 131k on clock). Previous owner took the car to RPM looking for some more vvvrroooom. Was dyno'd at 259bhp before work commenced (had non-original chips) and then £2700 later it was at 307bhp but it also received a compression test, leakdown and inspection of the cylinder liners. This result is more than sufficient to fulfill my desire. If I was buying another Turbo (and I'm not!) or someone asked for my input then I'd suggest that unless you know what you're doing or are prepared to pay someone who does, then buy a car which has already been modified. May likely be cheaper in the medium term anyway.
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