944s and rust

[allybee]

Hi All.

Another question based on my experiences of trying to enter the 944 fold. I'm coming to the conclusion that pretty much all 944s have a degree of rust on them, this seems to be mainly on the cills/wing bottoms (as the buyers guides have warned me).

My first question is how much rust is too much? In some cases its obvious (like the 'immaculate' S2 i saw with holes in the cills I could poke my finger in) however there seem to be a number of marginal cases. If the car has an MOT but evidence of some rust is that acceptable/more palatable.

I understand that at some point repair or replacement will be required. which leads onto my next question, what is the likely cost of cill replacement (I know each case is going to be different, but a ball park would be useful)

Thanks.

 

[ukmastiff]

Sills will eventually be an mot failure as they are structural and have proximity to seat belts etc . Wing corners will not lead to mot failure and can easily be repaired quite well at home as long as you dont want perfection.
For me unless you are budgeting 1000 'plus' to do the sills and paint properly avoid rotten sills but dont worry re wing tips.
If you do have rot on wing tips however check elsewhere carefuly.

If you want to see solid original sills on a 27 year old porka check mine out []
Ill be waxoyling pre winter too as i want to keep them.


Mas

 

[PSH]

Rust can be an issue with most 944's these days, after all we live in the UK, the cars are getting old and it's wet.
However there are some good cars still out there and others that have had the work done to ensure they continue to stay in good health. The early cars ( up to 86/87) seem to last longer than later ones and generally are better built, money wasn't such an issue back then.
If I was to go and buy a 944 today I'd take an endoscope and laptop with me and take a good look at the sills through the two access holes built into the sills, first is easy to get at as it's the plastic vent that you can see when opening the doors, just unclip the vent and pass the camera inside for a good look. The other hole is in the inner sill near the torsion bar, there's a rubber bung in it that you'll need to crawl under to remove. Most buyers will crawl under an old car before buying as a matter of course so this shouldn't be a problem and at least you'll know exactly how good or not the sills really are. You can buy good endoscopes from eBay for £30 pounds and it's a worthwhile tool to have for future use.

regards

Pete

 

[ukmastiff]

Budget version (plus already may be lying around home)
= small chinese usb web cam for a fiver taped to a coathanger wire
Sad i know [] but exactly the same except tbe cheap borescopes on flea bay still need the coathanger wire .

Mas

 

[edh]

They rust from the inside out

Can look nice & shiny on the outside, but like this on the inside

Cost me IRO 600 to get repaired, including a repair to the front mount point for the rear suspension.

btw - I went into this purchase with my eyes open - the PPI highlighted these issues. Obviously some cars are in much better condition than others. My last 944 had no sill rust, but was a bit scabby in places underneath.

This side is a bit better - now protected with bilt hamber dynax

Pictures taken with a digital camera hung down the door vent

 

[T3rra]

U can fit a mobile phone in the vent from the door jar. Iv seen them rust in very differnt ways. Sometimes from paint damage outside, so they look bad, but are really good inside. Problem with the sills are they go from the base up, this cause rust at both inner and outer.

Original sills and Porsche replacement have a dimiond in the centre.

A few other places 4 rust is around the rear number plate lights.


Also check the jack points, not really wise 2 use these. They can split, bend e.c.t sometimes the floor is damaged, letting rust and rot in there.

 

[os951]

What rust []
Looks rust is a problem on UK based 944's .
Son's project 951 is totally rust free. It's nice to apply some new paint to rustfree surface

 

[Copperman05]

ORIGINAL: allybee

My first question is how much rust is too much? In some cases its obvious (like the 'immaculate' S2 i saw with holes in the cills I could poke my finger in) however there seem to be a number of marginal cases. If the car has an MOT but evidence of some rust is that acceptable/more palatable.

what is the likely cost of cill replacement (I know each case is going to be different, but a ball park would be useful)

Thanks.

If the sills are clearly shot I would stay away, you will find some with some surface rust when looking inside and this is fairly normal (if its on the outside it usually means its too late). You may also find some that have been waxoled, this may be covering up rust underneath or it may not, checking the sound the sills make when tapped may help here.

Another area they go is rear quarter just infront of the rear wheels, there is another shorter box section and can rust inside out. The front wings are more obvious, I had mine done about 2 years ago and are still looking good.

I would budget £1000 each side for sill repair by decent bodyshop.

Rust seems to be a bit of a mystery of these cars as you'll sometimes find a '91 plate with loads and then a '88 plate with barely none, whether there were differences in quality control at the factory I dont know. I believe that its the way the car has been used/stored over the years that dictates how much rust it will have.




Edd

 

[allybee]

Rust seems to be a bit of a mystery of these cars as you'll sometimes find a '91 plate with loads and then a '88 plate with barely none, whether there were differences in quality control at the factory I dont know. I believe that its the way the car has been used/stored over the years that dictates how much rust it will have.

This seems consistent with what I've seen, and whats posted above. two of the cars I've seen that have been the worst for rust have been later cars.

 

[eddieedmo]

I think later cars were not fully galvanised ?

Nick []

 

[JM1962]

My theory is the rust in the sills comes from the stresses of the rear suspension points, causing flexing of the structure and therefore the galvanised coating which eventually gets micro cracks that let the moisture attack the steel. Maybe the harder the car has been driven the more likely it is to rust in these areas, plus it doesn't help that they are not painted. Or maybe its just the drainage holes get blocked allowing water to accumulate. The S2 and Turbo sill trims don't help. The really big problem is not replacing or repairing sills, but repairing rear suspension mounts in my opinion.

 

[George Elliott]

Galvanising is a bit of a myth, or perhaps a gimmick. Two reasons:
one - the spot weld process ruins the protection
and
two - the sheet steel was thinly coated (which aided the body shell construction) but where the sheet was cut the edges were un-galvanised.
Hence the galvanised bodies are as rotten as an old cortina as the salt attacked the exposed areas.
It was a help, better than nothing, but it was flawed.
George
944t

 

[CarreraRSR]

ORIGINAL: George Elliott

Galvanising is a bit of a myth, or perhaps a gimmick. Two reasons:
one - the spot weld process ruins the protection
and
two - the sheet steel was thinly coated (which aided the body shell construction) but where the sheet was cut the edges were un-galvanised.
Hence the galvanised bodies are as rotten as an old cortina as the salt attacked the exposed areas.
It was a help, better than nothing, but it was flawed.
George
944t

I thought the shells were dipped after fabrication and welding?

 

[Frenchy]

In my experience, early cars see to fair better with rust than later cars ?
By that i mean 83-86 MY

 

[pauljmcnulty]

There does seem to be a link between later cars after the factory move, and far worse corrosion. That might be anything from different steel to different galvanising, but it is more than anectotal.

Let's put it in to perspective, though, and bear in mind that my later car is needing a pretty comprehensive rstoration on top of about £5K in mechanical work in the lat two years. And, this obviously excludes those who can DIY everything.

Is there ANY comparable car from the same era that will need less money spending on the bodywork by now? Again, we need to remember that a 944 isn't a £3K car that will cost nothing to run; it's a £3K car that has a whole load of bills looming. Not being negative, in fact the opposite. I just think that you have to consider whether you want to get in to rust, failed HGs, caliper corrosion etc. if you could buy a newer car for the money and run it in to the ground? You could buy a pretty decent used modern hot hatch for the same money as a 944 plus it's first year's bills. You really need to accept Porsche running costs as well as the benefits of owning, and driving, one of the best cars made by Porsche, and see it as a £10k car that you've bought cheaply, and put the extra money aside. []

 

[zcacogp]

Yes, the earlier ones do seem stronger than the later ones. Series 1 cars generally fare better than Series 2 cars, and the late Series 2's do the worst of the lot.

My '89 S2 has original sills and they seem to be (fingers firmly crossed) very solid. (OK, I have treated them very carefully with BH S50 every year, but I have seen better-loved late cars in significantly worse nick than mine.)


Oli.

 

[944 man]

The bodies were hot dip gavenised.

Salt and body earthing are what destroys the cars, unfortunately. Look at every car that Olli has - no rust, and no road salt either, Id guess.

 

[George Elliott]

I thought the shells were dipped after fabrication and welding?

Thats the myth, they were dipped in zinc primer, but not "galvanised which is bare steel into hot molten zinc" which would distort the sheet metal

Agree the early ones were better, I put it down to cost and environmental considerations which increased steadily over the years. Look at the paint on a 1999 Merc for the low point of German quality. Its reversed since.

"The Bodies are HD Galvanised" can you show a photo of any body-shell from any manufacturer in a Hot Dip process? Nope - the story is just that Simon, but the detail is "the industry started using Zintec sheet to make the panels" and misled a lot of people into thinking the the shells were dipped like a farm gate.[8|]

The zinc primer dip helped with the myth too, because of the use of some zinc in the primer.

And IF they had been galvanised, there is no way they would have rusted like they did.

George
944t