944S2 & 968 Comparison

[Black_Potato]

Hi All,

I'm currently runing a Lotus Elise as a daily drive & whilst I have owned it for some years & been through various engines etc.. I'd quite like a few more comforts, space in the back for my kids (2 & 5yrs) but still have the option for a trackday if the urge took me. (I also race an old E30 BMW)

A 944 or 968 seems like a good middle ground between an Elise and a E30 BMW.

Current thinking is a 968 Sport, club sport is a nice idea but the lack of rear seats kills off the week end run with the wife and kids.

So to cut to the chase, is a 944 S2 a cheap 968 or are they completely different beasts ?

Any thoughts welcome & hopefully this isnt as much fun as the Elise S1 vs S2 debate !

Rgds,

Richard

 

[pauljmcnulty]

They are so similar it's more important to buy the best you can find, whichever is available. For instance, a 968 with original suspension won't be as good as an S2 that's been fitted with KWs. The 968 is a bit more powerful on paper, but if it's purely speed you're after then a 944 Turbo is going to be in a different league.

 

[steves944]

In my opinin (and as an owner of a 944) I think the design details of the 968 set it in a league of its own.

It is quite lovely to look at!

Sadly some of the older 944 look a bit scruffy now but I rarely see a bad 968 due probably to their enhanced values.

If I had 8 - 10K there would be no argument what I would buy

Steve

 

[ChasR]

As said, buy the best you can afford.

When I had a chat with Kevin at EMC, he said that under the skin the 944 and 968 are relatively similar. But that out of the two the 968 is in a different world. More refined, more rounded as a package. But as said, this is assuming that both cars are both in as good condition, and of course you will pay more to get a good 968 compared to an S2.

 

[Black_Potato]

Thanks...

So from that I am reading that the Chassis, suspension layout, braking ability, engine etc are all very similar and that a late 944 with £5k spent on it would be a better car than a raggy 968.

Obviously the resale value would be better on the 968...



What are the thoughts on the 944 Turbo ? still pretty reliable ? Whats the "Turbo experiance" like, is it all lag lag lag WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

 

[Suffolk944]

Yes a good S2 with a bit of money spent on it will be a better proposition than a ropey 968.

The 968 has a Varioram engine which adds to the complexity of things somewhat. As for looks, its as ever a personal thing but I have never really liked those of the 968 and much prefer the later 944 S2/Turbo apperance for a variety of reasons. Won't go into details to avoid upsetting any 968 owners that happen to be passing. []

Thoughts on Turbos will depend on whether you speak to a Turbo or non-Turbo owning individual. Yes they are still reliable if properly looked after (as with all '44s). In standard form they are rather old fashioned in their power delivery (part of the appeal to many) but for a small outlay this can be dramatically improved upon and they are properly quick. Its a slippery slope of modification with them though as theres always something else you can add/tweak to get that bit/lots of more power. Am on my second Turbo and love 'em. []

 

[Diver944]

On paper a 968 and an S2 are very similar and they do share the same basic platform. However on the whole the 968 adds up to more than the sum of it's parts. It has a more refined drive and power delivery than the S2 and the gear change is far, far sweeter than any 944 ever had. It also has rarity as so few were ever made, and being the later car they are generally in much better condition.

Are they worth sometimes twice the price of an S2? Those who have a 968 would probably say yes and those with an S2 would probably say no []

As ever buy the best condition of whichever that you can find, a good S2 will be better and far cheaper in the long run than a ropey 968.

Standard Turbos are very laggy indeed (especially if it still has the original 20 year old wasetgate), but this is easily remedied with a simple £99 boost enhancer or even better with a £400 dual port wastegate and chips

 

[pauljmcnulty]

On paper a 968 and an S2 are very similar and they do share the same basic platform. However on the whole the 968 adds up to more than the sum of it's parts. It has a more refined drive and power delivery than the S2 and the gear change is far, far sweeter than any 944 ever had. It also has rarity as so few were ever made, and being the later car they are generally in much better condition.

I'd add that most 968 owners are going to need to change the gear linkage at some time, in the same way as 944 owners will have done already in most cases. Rarity isn't necessarily a good thing in the real world, as parts availability is something to consider - particularly body panels. What is the comparison between prices, new and used, for things like wings and rear panels? I can't see, personally, how power delivery could be more refined than my S2, but I'm guessing it might have been chipped by a previous owner.

So from that I am reading that the Chassis, suspension layout, braking ability, engine etc are all very similar and that a late 944 with £5k spent on it would be a better car than a raggy 968.

Richard, you've summed up what we all feel about the cars in one sentence. The problem is, an S2 can be bought for £2.5K easily, and really good ones rarely better £6K. Suggest that someone spends another £5K and they'll think you're joking. [&o]

If you look at some of the really good S2s here, thinking of Wolfie's car, or the car Ron Smith bought, as a couple of examples, then their cars probably have had that sort of money spent over the years. I still can't see how that's any worse than the depreciation on a modern car myself, and a 944 or 968 that's maintained to a good standard will be better than most modern machinery as well.

 

[944Turbo]

wot they said ^^^^^

plus, according to magazine data in back of evo etc. S2 is lighter than 968CS (might be why 968 appears more refined) but I dont know for sure.

LSD is very rare in 968/944 S2 standard in late turbos but some here will tell you it will be knackered

Big brakes standard on late turbos rare on 968 and S2

back seats are better than the ones in an elise [] but car seats / boosters can be tricky.

Turbos can end up costing lots of money if the big power modding bug bites. c300BHP 300ft/lbs is relatively cheap though. (would cost a lot more in an s2 or 968)

Tony

 

[Big Dave]

Richard.
What a small world.
Im guessing your on the PBMW site.??
If you need any info on 944/968 comparisons, just u2u me or drop me a pm...
Ive had both S2,s + 968,s...+ now a PBMW...for 2010.[][][][]

 

[billus99]

ORIGINAL: sc0tty

I would not recommend either car for taking children in the back. Yes, there are so called seats in the back, but unless your kids have no legs, they are going to be very uncomfortable and unhappy.

My kids are 6 and 9, and whilst I wouldnt go a very long way, they love it and its great for weekend runs. I had a TVR before, that had to stay in the garage half the time at weekends, as i was running the kids around! (mines a cabrio, too)

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty


I can't see, personally, how power delivery could be more refined than my S2, but I'm guessing it might have been chipped by a previous owner.

I've driven a couple and been chauffered in a couple and they definately are more refined (I didn't say more powerful [] ). I think it's a combination of the Varioram engine, the dual mass flywheel and the much slicker 6 speed gearbox.

 

[333pg333]

ORIGINAL: Big Dave

Richard.
What a small world.
Im guessing your on the PBMW site.??
If you need any info on 944/968 comparisons, just u2u me or drop me a pm...
Ive had both S2,s + 968,s...+ now a PBMW...for 2010.[][][][]

Dave, don't tell me you've gone to the dark side for good?? [:'(]
Actually I drove a race prepped E39 in the US and it was a lot of fun. Just add lightness as they say.

As for the S2 vs 968, well I guess it's personal, but I agree with those that think the 944 shape is better than the 968 even though the 968 does look more of a contemporary build. The integrated rear being chief in this appraisal. Depending on what the intended use of the car would dictate a lot of the choice IMHO. A 968 CS would be a great little car and keep it's value, plus if you could throw some KWs onto it, well then...[]
Nice decision to make.

 

[TheFiend]

ORIGINAL: sc0tty

I would not recommend either car for taking children in the back. Yes, there are so called seats in the back, but unless your kids have no legs, they are going to be very uncomfortable and unhappy.

I know the back seats are a bit cramped, but I have had 2 adults in back without complaints, and 1 of them was a 6ft'er.

 

[Big Dave]

Pat.
No not for good. Still got the 968.. Just got a new toy for 2010...[][][][]
Yes,,, E30 320 just add lightness....[][]
Back to basics.

 

[Black_Potato]

ORIGINAL: Big Dave

Richard.
What a small world.
Im guessing your on the PBMW site.??
If you need any info on 944/968 comparisons, just u2u me or drop me a pm...
Ive had both S2,s + 968,s...+ now a PBMW...for 2010.[][][][]

Yep thats me... Actually Chairman of www.seloc.org and competitor in PBMWC and TTRS



Just to throw a spanner in the works, what are 928's like ?

I'm thinking expensive if they go wrong, probably dont like corners due to the boat anchor under the bonnet. However when they are running I guess they are quite special.

Not a serious consideration I dont think but just curious.

 

[944 man]

By todays standards the 928 is far from being a heavy car and it has similar weight distribution to a 944 too.

 

[Big Dave]

ORIGINAL: Black_Potato

ORIGINAL: Big Dave

Richard.
What a small world.
Im guessing your on the PBMW site.??
If you need any info on 944/968 comparisons, just u2u me or drop me a pm...
Ive had both S2,s + 968,s...+ now a PBMW...for 2010.[][][][]

Yep thats me... Actually Chairman of www.seloc.org and competitor in PBMWC and TTRS



Just to throw a spanner in the works, what are 928's like ?

I'm thinking expensive if they go wrong, probably dont like corners due to the boat anchor under the bonnet. However when they are running I guess they are quite special.

Not a serious consideration I dont think but just curious.

Big , expensive + IMHO ugly....Although they do have a strong following..
Richard. Ill no dought bump into you this year ...[Not intentionally though]...[][]

 

[333pg333]

Strip one down to say 1200kgs and do a few more bits n pieces. I think they'd be a ball.

 

[GTH9]

Look on Rick Cannels site, there is a magazine article comparing them. I had a similar predicament back in the summer, i could not find a decent 968 and opted for an S2 (daily driver) its true that the S2 at least is lighter than a CS.

I have replaced my suspension with M030, i dont have a sunroof and will further enhance it to CS spec but keep the back seat for my two kiddies (3&5)

Good luck, my friend who was very cynical when i bought it and has had Elise's S1 & S2, Exige, 340R etc even begrudgingly admitted it was a lot of fun to drive & comfortable!