Hi looking to see how many people own one of these cars , mine has black leather and full mo30 kit , but not sure if mo30 was fitted later ? love the car goes well but gearbox rebuild is on cards , can anyone tell me what a 100000 mile s2 engine is worth as i have been offerd one runs well ?
944s2 se 1991
- Thread starter NEIL2
- Start date
RC18B 911 turbo
New member
That looks quite nice but could do with some nicer pics please.
Not sure on the prices of S2 engines though.
Not sure on the prices of S2 engines though.
At a guess a 100,000 mile S2 engine could be worth somewhere between nothing (if the cams need to be replaced as well as the belts/water pump/clutch) and £2k if it's complete with manifolds etc. and the cams and chain are fine and the belts and clutch etc. are new.
Unless it's been damaged it would almost certainly be better to refurbish an existing engine as by 100,000 miles there has been plenty of time for the "new" one to be just as bad as the one in the car, plus you'd be keeping "matching numbers" in the car.
I don't know off the top of my head of any other SEs on here. I can't remember how many were made (maybe I never knew in fact), but what I do know is that they were created by Porsche Cars GB to try to help shift the last of the S2s before the 968 came out.
If the car had M030 from new it will be on the option code sticker in the boot and the inside of the service book. Cryptically you're looking for code 030.
Unless it's been damaged it would almost certainly be better to refurbish an existing engine as by 100,000 miles there has been plenty of time for the "new" one to be just as bad as the one in the car, plus you'd be keeping "matching numbers" in the car.
I don't know off the top of my head of any other SEs on here. I can't remember how many were made (maybe I never knew in fact), but what I do know is that they were created by Porsche Cars GB to try to help shift the last of the S2s before the 968 came out.
If the car had M030 from new it will be on the option code sticker in the boot and the inside of the service book. Cryptically you're looking for code 030.
Peter Empson
PCGB Member
In my experience complete S2 engines seem to go for about an average of £1k ish at the moment, a bit less privately (cheapest one I heard of went for £650 which I'd have bought as a spare if I'd known) and a bit more from the larger breakers. These ones will not normally have had the work Fen suggests done, so a top of £2k would be perfectly reasonable but I suspect rather hard to get in the current market.
Hi guys thanks for replies , se models had upgrades done in uk so never printed on factory sticker in boot , I have been told that it was koni coilovers that were fitted , part no,s on suspension on my car is MO30 , adjustable antiroll bars ect , i know my car was built november 1990 but did not sell until april 1992 , cant find any info from porsche about what was done to car . i bought s2 engine cams , pump ect all very good and a new clutch £700.00 seams a fair price ? will post more pics soon thanks again ..
The changes that made the car an SE were done in the UK, but as I said before it was an exercise by Porsche Cars GB to try to move the last of the S2s so it was by definition a quick tart up rather than sommething substantial like changing the suspension, hubs and brakes. I stand by what I said before; if your car had M030 from new it will be on the sticker. Does it have the bigger brakes and therefore M030 hubs or just the struts and rear shocks? If it's the latter I'd say retrofit for sure.
DavidL
Active member
The SE S2 was done here by PGB. I don't think it was a world wide model.
They basically threw the parts bin at it and a superchip chip upgrade supposedly giving 225bhp.
From what I have read the suspension is a Koni adjustable but not MO30 unless it was either specced from new or fitted afterwards.
If you do a search on "superchip" then there is a bit if info on an older thread.
They basically threw the parts bin at it and a superchip chip upgrade supposedly giving 225bhp.
From what I have read the suspension is a Koni adjustable but not MO30 unless it was either specced from new or fitted afterwards.
If you do a search on "superchip" then there is a bit if info on an older thread.
Diver944
Active member
One of the team at Porsche GB involved in the S2 SE back in 1992 was called Steve Kevlin, the very same Steve Kevlin who now runs the trackdays for our club. Several years ago a bunch of us had a chat with him about the S2 SE at one of our club trackdays.
Steve said that the suspension was not M030 but it was an adjustable coilover system from Koni. It was a one off from some parts bin at Reading and he imagined that it would never be available for replacement parts as they age. Any car with M030 Konis fitted now has most likely had it replaced when the originals wore out. Other parts fitted to the SE were a clubsport steering wheel, special stickers and a superchip delivering a claimed 225bhp (but I would doubt anywhere near that number)
Steve said that the suspension was not M030 but it was an adjustable coilover system from Koni. It was a one off from some parts bin at Reading and he imagined that it would never be available for replacement parts as they age. Any car with M030 Konis fitted now has most likely had it replaced when the originals wore out. Other parts fitted to the SE were a clubsport steering wheel, special stickers and a superchip delivering a claimed 225bhp (but I would doubt anywhere near that number)
My S2 cab had a Superchip when I bought it, a retro-fitted one but it would have been the same or a future development of the one fitted to the SEs in 1991. I sold it for £50 on eBay after replacing it with a much superior Blitz chip.
The whole 225bhp thing is pure fantasy. The standard S2 made 211 (and probably did when it was new at least). The 968 supposedly made 240 (which I think is questionable, personally) with the fairly significant addition of (admittedly crude) variable valve timing, a MAF replacing the barn door AFM and a superior engine management system. Even if the 968 really did make fully 29bhp more than the S2 it had extensive modifications to achieve that and slapping a chip in the S2 alone is not going to have released half of the 968 gain.
The Superchip probably improved throttle response, which might make the car feel peppier, but the Blitz did an even better job there in my experience.
The whole 225bhp thing is pure fantasy. The standard S2 made 211 (and probably did when it was new at least). The 968 supposedly made 240 (which I think is questionable, personally) with the fairly significant addition of (admittedly crude) variable valve timing, a MAF replacing the barn door AFM and a superior engine management system. Even if the 968 really did make fully 29bhp more than the S2 it had extensive modifications to achieve that and slapping a chip in the S2 alone is not going to have released half of the 968 gain.
The Superchip probably improved throttle response, which might make the car feel peppier, but the Blitz did an even better job there in my experience.
Big Dave
New member
OOOOO.
Handbags at dawn...
Actually scOtty. Fen does know a thing or 3 about the 944 breed. Possibly a tad more than "dare i say" yourself...
Hes NOT always correct though...+ he does sometimes come across as a bit of a "know it all". And sometimes a tad abrasive...I guess its his way .[Are you reading Fen.??]. OR moving "down under" has made him this way.[
][][8|][8|]...Ho , Hum..
Or have you just been on the sherbets.???? And want to take it out somebody.????
Ah, OK I'll do that. No hang on, have you earned repect on this forum such that I value your opinion? Actually no, nowhere near, even before you posted the above. Perhaps I'll pass then.
I had posted a different response but I decided to change it as it was too facetious given your post. You are downright rude and it's a bit rich suggesting someone else has a problem. Do you think this forum is just for you? Do you think you contribute positively to this forum? I bet you do, but I've got news for you; I've noticed for some time your snide comments, specifically when you tried to tear a strip off a non member for not wanting to join the Club and then took the "it's my ball" attitude with the forum suggesting it should be members only. Immature and arrogant.
Need more? You posted the following in a thread only 2 days ago: "Let the muppet get back to his chav hatch. You see these jokers all the time, they buy a 944 for the porsche name, and forget that it requires dedication and money to get the most out of the cars, forgetting that they are 20 or so years old and then compare them to modern day performance. Probably a youngster who thinks he knows better.
I'd like to see him beat me off the line in his vauxhall corsa halfords sh*t-mobile."
You're the big man, telling others how to behave and that's what you consider to be acceptable? That's in outright contravention of the forum's terms and conditions even if you think it is OK. Aside being outrageously rude and disrespectful it shows a laughable lack of maturity on your part, not to mention that it wasn't even relevant to what the guy you were attacking had said on at least 3 counts I can see. I'm sure I wasn't alone in losing a lot of respect for you in that one post and thinking you made a fool of yourself, but hey, 2 days later you thought you'd do it again in case that wasn't enough.
I know if I could be bothered to look I could find other examples because when you posted on Club membership I remember not being totally surprised it was you who was overstepping the mark.
I'd suggest the forum would be a better place if you took a sabbatical until you sort your attitude out. Seriously.
Dave; yes, reading this. I don't think moving changed me, I've always been inclined to come across abruptly and never denied it - I was brought up to call a spade a spade I guess (hopefully without being rude) and I think the world would be a better place if more people did it also. I'm not always right either - I was significantly wrong within the last couple of weeks on something and, as I always have when corrected, I admitted as much. My opinion is of course never wrong, not because I'm special but because by definition it is my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own.
NEIL2, I'm sorry your thread has been dragged off topic in this way.
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Hi James,
To be fair, Fen has probably the most experience of 944s of anyone here, owning several examples of S2, cab and long-term project turbo - modified until it found the limits so no-one else needs to! He's clocked up 100,000s of miles, and fixed almost everything more than once on the various cars. He's also been a long-term supporter of the various forums, regular at events etc. until moving halfway across the world and leaving the Club. He has been a great help to me as Register Secretary on several occasions and become one of the many people I've met through the Club that I'd call a friend. He does continue to pass on his experience despite not running a 944 at the moment, which very few ex-owners do unfortunately.
He's also upset almost everyone with his take-no-prisoners attitude, and stormed off the forum in a huff a couple of times. I have to say that it was a bit boring without him, and you only have to look back to see how often it's Fen who is first to post with an answer to a technical question as well as being first to pick a fight when he feels someone is wrong. Don't think that there haven't been a lot of e-mails flying around over the years between Fen and the moderators, but he has always taken our comments on board and accepted our position. Something that many other people have refused to do over the years.
I suppose that most of the long-termers here have, as Big Dave says, got over any initial perception that he's an arrogant know-it-all, and just accept that we all have different styles of communicating. Some easier on the eye, maybe, but if we were all the same it's be a dead forum! [
](Sorry to talk about you as if you're not here....[&:])
Hilux
New member
Sc0tty,
In my opinion, nowhere in Fens replies and responses to this thread does he suggest or claim to provide an overly expert opinion. I consider that his replies are based upon his past ownership of many cars and his genuine technical knowledge and experience of owning all derivatives of the 944 (which I might suggest is greater than yours) So, unless you have a relevant comment then I am afraid I find it quite sad that you choose to adopt your current attitude and position.
What on earth has PCGB membership got to do with it? Does it mean Fen is less experienced now he is not a card holding member? I certainly benefit and learn from past experiences on this forum (including Fens input) Please also point out where he `slags` off the 944 or have I missed something on another thread for you only need to attend and witness S2 rolling road figures to see that the manufacturers claims are probably on the optimistic side and tuning is potentially difficult and expensive for any reasonable potential power gains.
As for Corsa owners - did you not start somewhere? Many youngsters would love a bigger/better/faster car but cant afford one (or the insurance). My lad has a 1.1 Mk1 Golf as its cheap classic insurance but he`d love a tuned Mk3 (if he had the money)
You sound younger than me by a good few years so I can understand (sort of) that you feel some of us old farts are way past speed and performance BUT you should also understand that all opinions are valid but rudeness is not.
Suffolk944
Moderator
Not too much festive cheer and goodwill to all men in the sc0tty household it seems. [8|]
Fens always been very helpful to all sorts of people in the time I have been on this forum and long before that from what I can tell. He often goes into alot of detail such is his knowledge and often answering the same questions again and again with a great deal of forebearance. Yes he can be forthright sometimes and I dont always agree with his opinions but thats cool as we are all entitled to our own. However as others have said strongly voiced opinions are not the same as personal abuse and rudeness, whether directed at a non member (many of whom contribute a great deal here) or not.
Also a shame that Neils post has been hijacked by this.
Fens always been very helpful to all sorts of people in the time I have been on this forum and long before that from what I can tell. He often goes into alot of detail such is his knowledge and often answering the same questions again and again with a great deal of forebearance. Yes he can be forthright sometimes and I dont always agree with his opinions but thats cool as we are all entitled to our own. However as others have said strongly voiced opinions are not the same as personal abuse and rudeness, whether directed at a non member (many of whom contribute a great deal here) or not.
Also a shame that Neils post has been hijacked by this.
I would like to be associated with Jon's post & Paul's (Hilux) prior to it. []
As for expert credentials, I have known Fen for almost as long as I have had 944s and consider him to be one of the most knowledgeable people I can think of. There isn't much (sensible) that can be done to a 944 that Fen hasn't done already and he is as willing to share his failures as his successes. He who never made a mistake never made anything.
In my opinion his generosity in sharing this knowledge is second to none. It is because of this I personally requested Fen renew his association with this forum and I think the Forum is a better place for it.
I believe Fen as a prime example why the technical areas of this forum should be available to remote non members. Members gain a great deal from the shared knowledge, and experiences, of Fen and other contributors outside of the UK who, obviously, wouldn't gain much from PCGB membership themselves.
Any road up to get back to Neil's question - what ever Fen said []
Old cars are funny things. Some bits will last for ages. I have no reason to consider Beaky's bottom end isn't original and after 200K miles (of which the last 50K have been without mercy to my personal knowledge) he still seems to run fine. However, not all engines are the same and any old second hand item is a gamble.
If your own engine runs well, and has good compression, then there is little point in swapping it. Spend the money on known issues (cams, chains, tensioner, water pump, seals) and your engine could well be better than the one you are considering buying. If any of the above die they will kill your engine. If your current engine bottom end gives up the new bits may well survive to go on the next engine - so they are an investment. []
Don't let a noisy gearbox with notchy 1st to 2nd change worry you - they were like it when they were new.
]As for expert credentials, I have known Fen for almost as long as I have had 944s and consider him to be one of the most knowledgeable people I can think of. There isn't much (sensible) that can be done to a 944 that Fen hasn't done already and he is as willing to share his failures as his successes. He who never made a mistake never made anything.
In my opinion his generosity in sharing this knowledge is second to none. It is because of this I personally requested Fen renew his association with this forum and I think the Forum is a better place for it.
I believe Fen as a prime example why the technical areas of this forum should be available to remote non members. Members gain a great deal from the shared knowledge, and experiences, of Fen and other contributors outside of the UK who, obviously, wouldn't gain much from PCGB membership themselves.
Any road up to get back to Neil's question - what ever Fen said [
]Old cars are funny things. Some bits will last for ages. I have no reason to consider Beaky's bottom end isn't original and after 200K miles (of which the last 50K have been without mercy to my personal knowledge) he still seems to run fine. However, not all engines are the same and any old second hand item is a gamble.
If your own engine runs well, and has good compression, then there is little point in swapping it. Spend the money on known issues (cams, chains, tensioner, water pump, seals) and your engine could well be better than the one you are considering buying. If any of the above die they will kill your engine. If your current engine bottom end gives up the new bits may well survive to go on the next engine - so they are an investment. [
]Don't let a noisy gearbox with notchy 1st to 2nd change worry you - they were like it when they were new.
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