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964 RSRs... what's happening?

PhilRS

PhilRS

New member
Most of us here would agree that the 964 RSR is an iconic car, with possibly the best engine of the air-cooled range, highest development of suspensions (pre-993), brakes, a great shape and so forth.

Why is is then that there are some many for sale at the moment?

And why is it that some of them have been for sale for years?

Views?
 
Good point. I guess, it depends on the collector´s item status. When the car was presented in the early 90s, it was someting special...and rare.

So (again, I guess) these cars were mainly owned by collectors, I don´t remember a RSR in those day´s clubsport. The market for collector´s cars is a bit tight I think, and these cars have six digits prices. That makes it more difficult, enthusiasts could have 90 percent of the RSR performance with a simple Cup car or RS N-GT.

In these times everybody who was involved on the financial markets has lost money - some more, some less. Now many people need money and that´s the time when collector´s cars are for sale.

Could be a reason, but it could also be...... just coincidence.[:D]

With scientific regards

Hacki

 
ORIGINAL: Hacki

Good point. I guess, it depends on the collector´s item status. When the car was presented in the early 90s, it was someting special...and rare.

So (again, I guess) these cars were mainly owned by collectors, I don´t remember a RSR in those day´s clubsport. The market for collector´s cars is a bit tight I think, and these cars have six digits prices. That makes it more difficult, enthusiasts could have 90 percent of the RSR performance with a simple Cup car or RS N-GT.

In these times everybody who was involved on the financial markets has lost money - some more, some less. Now many people need money and that´s the time when collector´s cars are for sale.

Could be a reason, but it could also be...... just coincidence.[:D]

With scientific regards

Hacki
Click to expand...

It looks as if there are two types of cars: The no-mileage (or very little mileage, e.g. Ben's) collector's item vs. the well-run racers.

The virgins seem to sell relatively easily (cf. Ben's, the Paul Howells' car, still with the bottle of champagne from the factory, the yellow RSR from Edmond Harris, and then there is the horribly expensive red RSR on classicar).

The racers (and this includes my own experience as buyer and seller) do not seem to sell (cf. the two Freisinger's that have been on sale for years and others that are offered here and there).

The racers were typically used in various international and national series early on, and then drifted into club racing. Some were heavily modified which could explain why people stay away from them, but some are still original.

Despite their considerable pedigree, there does not seem to be much interest in these racers, judging by how long they take to sell.

Sure there is the crisis, but what I am saying reflects a state that preceded the crisis.

That's what surprises my scientific, analytical mind [:D][:D]

 
150k+ cars that are not really road worthy have a limited market. When they qualify for historic racing in the future though expect the prices to rocket further. Historic racers have deeep pockets and like to win ;)

Besides that they are rubbish. I wouldn't buy one and spend a fortune restoring it to mint and then keep it for a long long time...you'd have to be mad!!! ;)
 
I concur with Jason, the Ex-racers are hard to sell, as there isnt anywhere to race them. FIA GT 90s (http://www.gt90s-revival.com/), is about all there is at the moment, or club racing.

But once the GW revival and festival are looking for these cars, then interest will increase again on the useable end of the market. Look at prices and interest on appendix K cars? Why wont these go the same way - eventually?
 
Reason the price of the 3.8 RS's are approaching the RSR's is exactly what is mentioned above, you get a cool track day beast (ditto) but at least you can drive it to the local Porsche meet... until there is somewhere for the RSR's to race (and don't forget a LOT were built from spare shells etc and aren't real factory cars which might be putting people off) then unless they have a specific (Le Mans) history it doesn't seem daft that they trade close to a 3.8 RS that is original and not been pounded around a race track?
As for not selling... am I alone in thinking some of the dealers have increased the asking prices on these cars pretty significantly over the last couple of years and collectors are just not falling for it?
Also, as mentioned, the financial crisis is taking it's toll, look at the number of unsold lots at the recent auctions at Pebble Beach/ Monterey... and also the Ex Bugatti Bugatti??? Guy sold it no reserve (? why?) and was expecting to get 20-25mm $$... got less than $2mm for it I think.

There was a lot of rubbish when this all kicked off about people taking money out of bank to put in classics because they were earning nothing in the bank/ didn't trust banks with their money but now people realise if times are going to be tough for a few years (and next time someone tells you the housing market is about to bounce point out the Japanese market was down 5% last year and it's 20 years since it hit it's peak) then they want to have some liquidity both to live on and for future opportunities that might arise.

All IMHO of course!
Rick
 
as someone who is potentially interested in a 964 3.8 rs or rsr would be glad if there were any more views on this

tending towards rsr but any views?

and why are regular cups trading way below?
 
As I understand it there is a *big* difference between a cup/ngt and a 3.8 RSR, wide body, more power etc. Reading reports of those how have driven both (on here!) certainly talk of a great difference. Certainly it was *the* earlier 90s porsche for GT racing.

Once that era is revived the racers will be back in force. (I'll be tootling around at the back of the grid in my NGT [:)] )
 
The price of an engine rebuild on a RSR is around 40K ( as quoted to me by Thomas when I was getting a drive of one at Spa a few years ago). This is big league compared with the 964 RS engine which can be rebuild for pocket money! ;O)

The other thing was they needed done circa 150 hours!
 
Some of the rsr are very cheap at the moment,a lot of high end cars selling at record prices and still soring..
It seems crazy that some are so cheap,may be issues with the cars or need refurb etc,the low miles minters will always command top dollar.
You should buy them and put them away for a while,or simply use them.
I dont know where Thomas gets 40k for a rebuild,the engine parts are little different to any rs,unless you have to replace the crank etc,.If looked after they will go for a long time ,Probably as long as any other rs engine if driven at 80/ 90%.
One of the best handling 911 made before the invent of the more complex suspension system cars,very intoxicating.
 

ORIGINAL: paul howells

One of the best handling 911 made before the invent of the more complex suspension system cars,very intoxicating.
Click to expand...

Very true. 964 RSRs are essentially very neutral cars and they can be pushed a lot more in fast corners than a 964 Cup. There is not much between a 964 RSR and a 993 Cup though.

 
The 993 cup is a top car,they all are really.I would say the 964rsr was more predictable in the corners and talked to you a little earlier,but when it broke away ,you had to be quicker than the 993 to hold it.
But again very subjective with tyres,set up etc
I see E Harris has another 964rsr coming in ,never raced etc for around 130
 
thanks for comments

so really only locklear and harris rsr's available here .

40k for 964rsr engine revision?

997 rsr 35k euro every 30h!!!!
 
Tomkat
There is another rsr available,email me if you want the info,its not cheap but great race history.
964rsr engines are not 40k to refresh,unless every thing was knackered.Little more than a 964/993rs to rebuild.
 
Maybe Tom was thinking about Vic when he mentioned this? Miss shift scenario.

Paul, we are talking Thomas here. Inflation knows no bounds and this was a few years ago!
 
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