964 to GT3?

[NeilW]

I have owned my 964, which I adore, for 4 years but have the opportunity to spend some money this year on an 'upgrade' if I wish. This opportunity may not be repeated for many years as I have other expenditure scheduled (university, house move, etc).

I currently avoid using the 964 during the worst weather, i.e. when the roads are salted, instead using my trusty 944. (As an aside, this is mainly because the open rear wheelarch design of the 964 and older 911s provides more hiding places for rust to form whereas the 944 has an enclosed wheelarch area. Has anyone found a solution for 964 plastic rear wheelarch liners?)

My 964 has lowered/stiffened suspension and a cup pipe so I'm used to a harder ride with lovely vocals, and would like more of the same.

Anyway, ideally I'd like a single Porsche that I could use all year round. The only car that I would consider as a replacement to my 964 that fits my budget is a 996 GT3, either mark 1 or 2. I know there are some pluses and minuses between the two versions.

I have used search and read quite a bit here, and on Rennlist and Pistonheads. I don't think I'm alone in considering this change but would value the opinion of those who've tread the path before me. From what I've read several people have made the move 964->GT3 and some 964->GT3->964. I'd like to hear about the reasons and regrets.

So, two specific questions:-
1) Will the GT3 replace the great drivers car that the 964 is or will I be left regretting the move?
2) Is it realistic/practical to use the GT3 as a daily driver, say 5-7K miles pa?

Other things worth mentioning:-
1) I would likely avoid using the GT3 on wintery days as I can walk the 2 miles to work. This isn't a major hardship as I'm an all seasons runner.
2) I haven't mentioned running costs as my research to this point leads me to believe that it may be broadly similar 964 vs GT3.
3) If I don't buy a GT3 then I would likely purchase some sort of hot hatch for fun daily duties and winter, keeping the 964 for pleasure.
4) The 944 will go in any event.
5) I deliberately haven't been to look at or drive a GT3 as my history of impulse car purchases is shocking, even though this would seem like the ideal thing to do.
6) I love the communication through the steering wheel and seat of the 964, the fact that you don't have to go fast to enjoy driving it, the sound it makes, the solid engineering, and the beautiful design both inside and out.
7) My focus is on driving pleasure and owning a great piece of engineering.

Thanks.

 

[mcgc0]

Good debate you started there Neil..!

Have a C4 like you too. However, since handing the car to Chris at Centre Gravity last August my enjoyment increased significantly more than I thought. Kind of indicated to me that rather than look elsewhere, I can improve things further to a degree of personal preference that will constantly thrill and deliver.

Like you, not tried a 996 of any type yet - did you not think about GT3 RS? I did have track day with a new 997 GT3 when it came out but somehow remember not feeling as engaged as I do with my 'basic' 964. Maybe if I spent more time with it I'd have a different view.

The price of low mileage GT3's suggests some level of unpopularity so that may be an indicator. Bottom line, me thinks any air-cooled 911 is as driver engaged as you're going to get in terms of involvement - you're right, it does feel solid (but no doubt someone will want to refute that).

Stick with the 964 and if/when fully sorted (if not already) not much else for the price will deliver that level of driver engagement and involvement. Hot hatch too? A couple of months ago I had a look at a Golf MkII GTi in perfect condition but... with a fully sorted brand new Audi 2.0 turbo unit in there fitted by Audi. Brakes too where Audi's I recall...

I too have been wondering what I can do re rear wheel arch liners, if anything. Even just a half liner that prevents throw up into the rear quarter and rear lights would be good.

 

[MarkK]

I have owned a few variations of GT3 and I would say after reading the points on your post a MK2 GT3 (996)would be a great move, I think when I finish racing I might go back to a 996 GT3 of some sort as a track b....tch,also I think you might find even a club sport is pretty comfy.At the very worst you could go back to a 964,life is short why not give one a try..!?You won't lose money..
Soundtrack is epic on a GT3[]
RS 996 is a bit fragile for everyday use,carbon bits and plastic rear screen,a regular clubsport 996 MK2 is a bit more refined plus if it's dirty you could park it anywhere and it wouldn't draw to much attention these days I think they are a great buy now too.

 

[Steve Brookes]

GT3 register secretary Alex moved from 964 C4 to 996 GT3 but still has the 964 I believe. Well worth asking the same question on the GT3 forum.

 

[Alexander_Drobik]

Hmm - good question - I kept my 964 as well as having the GT3. The earlier GT3's are quite like the faster 964's/RS in that the edgy feel and where the machine quality comes through. But, the GT3 is the faster more accomplished (race) car - and great for fast roads and track; it is pretty useless in towns/speed bumps/multi-story car parks (unless you fit a hydraulic lifter) . It is also noisier than the 964. I could not part with the 964 in the end - great cruiser, cross country car and fantastic all weather missile (mine is a C4). The GT3 is a racer for the fast roads and track (and great in the wet despite what some say). You can switch off a little in the 964, but in the GT3 you have to stay alert.

In the end you have to work out what you want the car to do for most of the time, or if not get both! I really could not part with it, nor be denied a GT3.

Good luck!

 

[NeilW]

Thanks chaps. I agree in an ideal world I'd be keeping the 964 and adding the GT3 to the stable but I don't really have that sort of budget at the moment. Good to hear that the GT3 is OK in the wet as comments elsewhere suggested that it's on a knife edge ready to swap ends. An RS is also beyond my means and taking in the comments above, probably not a good idea anyway.

Steve - Yep, simultaneously posted on the GT3 forum so will monitor for responses. Though, from the above, it sounds like quite a few owners are still here!

Though my 964 is mechanically spot-on, rust never seems too far away, whether it's a tiny bubble on a wing or a corroded jacking point. It seems to average two trips to the bodyshop per year; perhaps I'm just picky. How does the GT3 fair given that it has minimal/no underbody protection? Perversely, my bodyshop reckons that because the underseal is so thick and rubbery on the 964, rust can fester behind unnoticed for a long time. Perhaps it would be more evident and therefore easier to catch on the GT3? I did see the 9M topic on Rennlist about a GT3 underbody resto, very interesting.

 

[Steve Brookes]

FWIW I'd say go for it as it sounds like an itch that won't go away. You're unlikely to lose much capital if you get a 996 GT3 for a year or two. [] However, if you then decide to come back to a 964 in a couple of years, it might cost more to get back in to one compared to what you sell your current one for now. []

 

[danofesher]

I moved from a supercharged 3.2 to a 996 MkII GT3. It's been very cheap to run until recently when I had a very significant expense (I think I was just unlucky). Get a Mk II GT3 - it's fantastic (remember that the suspension's adjustable so if you don't like it you can have it altered. The sound of the engine as it approaches 8200 is to die for.)

 

[Melv]

Much though I'm a huge 964 fan, the GT3 (on track) is eminently chuckable and Porsche seem to have ruled out the interminable understeer on a standard 964. For the road, to get the same experience you have to go so much faster in a GT3 and I'd soon lose my licence....[&:]

Where I'm considering changing up around 6500 in my Cup, the GT3 has nearly another two grand to go!!

 

[turbo jonny]

A friend of mine has a Mk2 GT3 and uses it all year round. I have been on a few road trips with him &
i wouldnt swop one for my 964 !

Also have a hot hatch ( clio cup ) that i find a perfect compliment to a 964.

 

[NeilW]

Again, thanks for the useful experiences, points and opinions. Decisions, decisions.....

Steve, that's really the crux of the thing - getting shot of my sorted 964 to find it's what I really wanted, then having to go back and start again with another 964. A GT3 does seem to be the natural upgrade path though. Would you trade your track-sorted 964 for one?

 

[Steve Brookes]

ORIGINAL: NeilW

Steve, that's really the crux of the thing - getting shot of my sorted 964 to find it's what I really wanted, then having to go back and start again with another 964. A GT3 does seem to be the natural upgrade path though. Would you trade your track-sorted 964 for one?

While I'll freely admit that I have a very itchy itch for a GT3 I don't aim to scratch it unless it can (like Alex has done) sit alongside the 964. Having done a lot of passenger rides in GT3s on track, I think the 964 is just as much fun, albeit at lower speeds. The 964 is now regarded as part of the family and like yours gets treated to what she needs to keep her on song. I have never got bored of driving her. []

 

[964RS_DAB]

I agree with many of the comments already made. The GT3 whilst being more edgy than a 64 is a hugely rewarding drive - and I can't see a reason why it couldn't be a daily driver.

BUT...... the running costs of a GT3 are much higher than a 64, clearly this will depend on your driving style etc. but they do have a huge appetite for consumables such as clutch, shock absorbers, tyres, radiators, brake discs diff plates, and the list goes on. Many GT3 drivers budget several £k per annum for such running costs.

 

[NeilW]

Steve, yes "part of the family" is very much the case. I'm sure that even if the GT3 was as great as I believe there'd still be a sense of loss with the 964. I think owning both may be the only solution; though that will have to wait.

David, interesting comment on running costs. I thought that the clutch, tyres and shocks would be roughly in line with the 964 for a given mileage. I understand about the radiator and diff plates being an additional cost. BTW, that's a beautiful 2-car garage you have!

 

[Gordon Attar]

Neil

I appreciate this is a bit at odds with the title.

I would add a 996 Turbo to your search as you can buy one for early £20k's and use it for a daily driver and keep the 964, the GT3 isnt the best car o use as a daily driver!

 

[h_____]

I think a GT3 will make a great replacement for a 964. I think they are great value for money, wont depreciate too much and will be fun to drive. I've been in a few on track and road, and they make great cars. Not too harsh, but still engaging, and very capable.

I dont think you'll regret it. If I had the spare cash I'd buy one. I cant help but look at costs of GT3 RSs and think they look cheap, as do early GT3 clubsports - got to be a good purchase.

If you are comfortable with the ride, I cant see why a GT3 should be fine as a daily driver too.

 

[davidcross]

ORIGINAL: h_____

I think a GT3 will make a great replacement for a 964. I think they are great value for money, wont depreciate too much and will be fun to drive. I've been in a few on track and road, and they make great cars. Not too harsh, but still engaging, and very capable.

I dont think you'll regret it. If I had the spare cash I'd buy one. I cant help but look at costs of GT3 RSs and think they look cheap, as do early GT3 clubsports - got to be a good purchase.

If you are comfortable with the ride, I cant see why a GT3 should be fine as a daily driver too.

May be interesting driving round all year with no air con??
997 gt3 maybe

 

[NeilW]

Gordon, yes the 996T is a bit of a performance bargain at the moment, it just doesn't call out to me as a GT3 does. How are you finding the 996T compared with what looks like an extensive range of previous Porsches?

 

[NeilW]

Hugh, you're right, now does seem like a good time to buy. I may have to wait until I can stretch to having both as others have done. Cheers.

 

[964RS_DAB]

ORIGINAL: NeilW

BTW, that's a beautiful 2-car garage you have!

Thanks Neil []

The cost of consumables may be similar for 64 and GT3, but a GT3 consumes them at an alarmingly frequent rate, which I imagine is due to a combination of slightly heavier car and +50% more power, which results in items being stressed more when these cars are 'exercised'. Don't let this put you off - properly sorted GT3s are fantastic cars.