964RS vs 993RS
- Thread starter ianmcg
- Start date
There's been an awful lot written about this and a lot more will be added to what I can say ...
The 993RS is a softer car, wider arches giving a more volutuous shape, single mass flywheel and electrical cut-out on only the few Clubsports, six gears, varioram 3.8 engine feels less torquey but more revvy, hydraulic tappits, a much more modern trim finish to it, no heated rear window elements, no dimmable instrument lights or variable delay windscreen wipers, all should have cats, aluminium 18" Speedlines rather than 17" Cup 1 Mags.
There are also the normal 993 enhancements, central dual blade windscreen wipers, the modular rear suspension assembly ----
Handling --- More road friendly, maybe a little harder to press into oversteer, probably higher lateral G forces and a little more composed --- but a little less playful.
The 993RS is faster, but goes about it in a quieter way so it doesn't feel as fast as it is.
Definitely a half way house to the GT3 MkI CS --- which did have a single mass flywheel, electric windows, manual mirrors, heater rear window etc.
Aircon often found on GT3, sometimes found on 993 and never found on 964RS' ---but 964 and 993RS are an easy drive with the windows down, the GT3 less so !
Synchros --- steel on 964 and 993RS, brass on first GT3's, the back to steel.
Brakes --- plenty good enough on 964 ad 993RS, often upgraded on GT3 MkI.
Top speeds, 165, 175 and 185 approximately with 0 to 100 times to match !
Sorry for going OTT but the direction is clear and I'd like to see the bits I have missed ! Being first has it's advantages [
]
The 993RS is a softer car, wider arches giving a more volutuous shape, single mass flywheel and electrical cut-out on only the few Clubsports, six gears, varioram 3.8 engine feels less torquey but more revvy, hydraulic tappits, a much more modern trim finish to it, no heated rear window elements, no dimmable instrument lights or variable delay windscreen wipers, all should have cats, aluminium 18" Speedlines rather than 17" Cup 1 Mags.
There are also the normal 993 enhancements, central dual blade windscreen wipers, the modular rear suspension assembly ----
Handling --- More road friendly, maybe a little harder to press into oversteer, probably higher lateral G forces and a little more composed --- but a little less playful.
The 993RS is faster, but goes about it in a quieter way so it doesn't feel as fast as it is.
Definitely a half way house to the GT3 MkI CS --- which did have a single mass flywheel, electric windows, manual mirrors, heater rear window etc.
Aircon often found on GT3, sometimes found on 993 and never found on 964RS' ---but 964 and 993RS are an easy drive with the windows down, the GT3 less so !
Synchros --- steel on 964 and 993RS, brass on first GT3's, the back to steel.
Brakes --- plenty good enough on 964 ad 993RS, often upgraded on GT3 MkI.
Top speeds, 165, 175 and 185 approximately with 0 to 100 times to match !
Sorry for going OTT but the direction is clear and I'd like to see the bits I have missed ! Being first has it's advantages [
]Just to stir the pot to show I've been doing my homework here's a comment in the CSL forum of all places on another car website:
Having owned a 993RS I'll say hand on heart I think they're the most overated RS of the lot. The 964 RS always felt a lot more honest in its suspension set up (admittedly it's too hard for anything other than billiard smooth roads, and there the 993 version scores over its elder sister) But having owned three 964 RSs I think they're far superior in terms of steering feel and seat of the pants "what's going on underneath you" feel when compared to the 993.
My subsequent ownership of a MK 1 GT3 proved just how totally overated the 993 RS was (IMO)
Ian
Having owned a 993RS I'll say hand on heart I think they're the most overated RS of the lot. The 964 RS always felt a lot more honest in its suspension set up (admittedly it's too hard for anything other than billiard smooth roads, and there the 993 version scores over its elder sister) But having owned three 964 RSs I think they're far superior in terms of steering feel and seat of the pants "what's going on underneath you" feel when compared to the 993.
My subsequent ownership of a MK 1 GT3 proved just how totally overated the 993 RS was (IMO)
Ian
65 mat
New member
Are those the words of someone off here?[] ...Can't be Chris because he has owned 4 964 RS's!...but has also owned a CSL []???
Will someone please post this over on the 993 RS section...would love to hear their comments[]...just be ready to duck when the ''teddies'' are thrown out of the cot!
IMHO Chris, I think your 964 Clubbie feels much much quicker than your 993 RS.
] ...Can't be Chris because he has owned 4 964 RS's!...but has also owned a CSL []???Will someone please post this over on the 993 RS section...would love to hear their comments[
]...just be ready to duck when the ''teddies'' are thrown out of the cot!IMHO Chris, I think your 964 Clubbie feels much much quicker than your 993 RS.
PhilRS
New member
I have been lucky to drive them all, in all their shapes: Carpet RSs, Clubsport RSs, CUPs and RSR (the latter only as the 964 model).
The main difference between the carpet 964 and 993 RSs is in the front suspension, which was not designed for the road in a 964 RS (and many owners retro-fitted the 993's). Raise your hand if you ended up on the other side of the road in a 964 RS because of a bump? Yes, me too! [][] Still, I prefer the carpet 964RS as a mixed road/track car. On the track, I never felt that there was much of a difference between the two carpet models and so the 964RS was the better value for money car (actually of all 911s in my view). Also, the dual-mass flywheel and the power steering of the carpet 993 kill much of the rawness of the car (in my view).
For the non-carpet version (i.e. the Clubsport/NGT), the 993 was comparatively more developed to its carpet version than the 964 ever was and so it does make a significant difference on the track. With its single-mass flywheel and more powerful engine it also feels less inert than its carpet counterpart.
The CUPs are a very different story altogether. Though I am a great fan of the 964CUP I prefer the 993CUP. Both are very similar in driving feel but the 993 is stiffer, has a better gearbox, a stronger engine, a larger footprint and so is faster around the track (at Spa, about as fast as a 964RSR and close in pace to the early 996CUPs) while keeping the classic 911 feel. But then the charms of driving a 964CUP on the Kemel straight (when it goes into 5th gear) are that one can relax, eat a snack, read the news, take a few pictures and marvel at the evolution of the breed passing left and right [][][][]
The main difference between the carpet 964 and 993 RSs is in the front suspension, which was not designed for the road in a 964 RS (and many owners retro-fitted the 993's). Raise your hand if you ended up on the other side of the road in a 964 RS because of a bump? Yes, me too! [
][] Still, I prefer the carpet 964RS as a mixed road/track car. On the track, I never felt that there was much of a difference between the two carpet models and so the 964RS was the better value for money car (actually of all 911s in my view). Also, the dual-mass flywheel and the power steering of the carpet 993 kill much of the rawness of the car (in my view).For the non-carpet version (i.e. the Clubsport/NGT), the 993 was comparatively more developed to its carpet version than the 964 ever was and so it does make a significant difference on the track. With its single-mass flywheel and more powerful engine it also feels less inert than its carpet counterpart.
The CUPs are a very different story altogether. Though I am a great fan of the 964CUP I prefer the 993CUP. Both are very similar in driving feel but the 993 is stiffer, has a better gearbox, a stronger engine, a larger footprint and so is faster around the track (at Spa, about as fast as a 964RSR and close in pace to the early 996CUPs) while keeping the classic 911 feel. But then the charms of driving a 964CUP on the Kemel straight (when it goes into 5th gear) are that one can relax, eat a snack, read the news, take a few pictures and marvel at the evolution of the breed passing left and right [
][][][]
Chris, agree mainly , csl no comment .......................one omission i wud nt have driven a 964 to work for 5 years but i did with 993 ..................and still quite adequate and happy to be ragged on track das ......far more feel .............once into cup cars , lightweights even clubsports imo different tale ........................come on OP pound gone floopy 1st thing get on with it!
Hacki
Active member
ORIGINAL: PhilRS
But then the charms of driving a 964CUP on the Kemel straight (when it goes into 5th gear) are that one can relax, eat a snack, read the news, take a few pictures and marvel at the evolution of the breed passing left and right [
[
][][]But wait until the braking point...when the 964 CUPs are right on the back of those who passed... or passed them again. Felt like a revenge everytime!
Hacki
Always with that "red mist in front of my eyes" feeling whem trying to be the LAST OF THE LATE BRAKERS
Truthfully enjoying it now i have some power restored , like the boots on the other foot David and Goliath style!!! Even Silverstone was fun , surprising wat i got a way with......................well with one exception at Vale !Lightness late brakes and pure power .......still wud nt mind just 1 turbo back ???
I have driven both clubsport and carpet versions of 993 RS and thought the biggest difference was in the compliance of the rear end. The newer design rear axle makes the car quieter and gives the impression of less weight tranfer which i guess is what is happening? Couple that to the softer front suspension and the car feels quite a bit different to the 64. Truth be told the 993 is closer to the GT3 than the 64 in design. in fact I suppose it's a half way house design. The GT3 getting the full re-design with new front end to match the back and a chassis that can make best use of the geo. The Cup versions put back the "rawness" that the soft road front end and rubber bushing in the rear took out. I don't know off hand but i would guess the cup rear has solid or stiffer bushings that transform the rear . Certainly feels better for it.
ORIGINAL: 65 mat
Are those the words of someone off here?[
Will someone please post this over on the 993 RS section...would love to hear their comments[
IMHO Chris, I think your 964 Clubbie feels much much quicker than your 993 RS.
Thanks Matt, you are the only person who has sat next to me in both.
I don't know track times but checking the speedo, the 993RS is fast for 300BHP --- even if the Motec 964 Clubbie is faster.
I had new PS Cups on the 993RS and good Toyo's (on pink wheels [
]) on the 964RS Clubbie (can I just call them the red one and the blue one ?).At the McLeans loops at Donnington GP the front end of the 993RS was washing out and I could play with the understeer/throttle balance, but couldn't push it into an oversteer position without spinning (chasing Tim).
The 964RS felt more engaging, and sounded visceral, but you were still hanging onto the roll cage in the 993RS (photographic evidence I'm afraid [
]) --- and it felt more line dependent than the 993RS.Getting Goddards right seemed to pay bigger dividends in the 944RS than the 993RS --- for the straight down to Redgate (and beyond !)
I should add that my 993RS has a single mass flywheel ....
It would take a very heavily modified CSL to keep up --- over 20 laps, with a well driven 964RS. And the 993RS is faster ...
The brakes on a CSL at Oulton or Cadwell are stuffed in four laps, the RS's just keep on keeping on, until the wheels fall off [
]AP's and smart suspension excepted BMW just did not build a Porsche RS .. IMHO ..
Gordon Attar
New member
looks
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