968 engine differences

[djcla]

http://www.autozine.org/classic/924.htm
been reading this site about the 968 and it seems similar to the 944 s2 with a few changes to produce extra hp. my question is can u not get an s2 engine tuned to the same performance level fairly cheaply ? Being completely non mechanical i may be completely off the planet but just wondered.

 

[924nutter]

The 968 allegedly produced 240 bhp but contemporary tests only ever credited it with 232. Given that the variocam is a particularly troublesome peice of kit if not maintained properly I would save myslef the potential of extra grief and rechip the 212 bhp S2 lump. I don't know what the limit is but I bet you could get close to 232bhp for a lot less money.

 

[Big Dave]

"[the variocam is a particularly troublesome peice of kit]"...

So WHY is it a troublesome piece of kit...?????

Ive been around the 968 for around 6 years + in that time i havnt heard of any faliures..Ive heard of LOTS of other faliures, ie pinion bearings , clutches etc etc ....
In fact i do remember ONE vario cam going south, but that was as a result of the oil pick up pipe in the sump cracking + sucking air up instead of oil.......The S2 can suffer from exactly the same problems aswell...
Yes the cams wear out , just like the S2 ones do.. Maybee your getting things mixed up...

Unless you can back up your statement....???????????????

Getting back on track..
Porsche definately extracted just about as much as they poss could from a 968 engine...+ only by strapping a supercharger kit to it can one get subtantial extra power. But then again that wasnt Porsche,s way of doing things... As it was a evolution of the S2 engine, ...
Yes it is poss to get close to the output of a 68 engine from a 44 ,, but it costs,,,[ A lot less money,, I dont think so].. How does £3k sound..???? + it also delivers its power at different times in the rev range....
Ask me how i know...??
Ive done just that... Had a 944S2 engine rebuilt to "keep" up with the 68,s on track....Yes it does keep up, in fact it can drive rings round some 968,s...

Your best off just fitting a K+N filter, Chip + decat it...[ MUCH MUCH cheaper.]...

OR

If you want 968 performance, then buy a 968 instead of a S2....It realy is that easy.......

 

[333pg333]

^^ Spoken by a man who knows!!

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: Big Dave UK
Ive been around the 968 for around 6 years + in that time i havnt heard of any faliures..Ive heard of LOTS of other faliures, ie pinion bearings , clutches etc etc ....
In fact i do remember ONE vario cam going south, but that was as a result of the oil pick up pipe in the sump cracking + sucking air up instead of oil.......The S2 can suffer from exactly the same problems aswell...
Yes the cams wear out , just like the S2 ones do.. Maybee your getting things mixed up...

Unless you can back up your statement....???????????????

Sorry but 968 seem to go up through sets of camshafts at a higher rate than S2 and since the tensioner is the only difference in the head between the two cars I think it is fair to say it is the culprit.
No pinion bearings issue on S2 because of fault during assembly.
I've never heard/read of oil pick up tube failure on S2, only on 968.
And don't even get me started on DMF [][]

 

[Diver944]

Think I'll just watch this one

 

[djcla]

decat it.

what does this mean? what does it do, ? is cat the catilitic convertor by any (which incidently i have no idea what that is either) chance?

 

[MarkK]

My 968CS variocam exploded on the main straight at Spa,thankfully it was still covered under warranty at the time thank god,oil everywhere......

 

[Big Dave]

ORIGINAL: djcla

decat it.

what does this mean? what does it do, ? is cat the catilitic convertor by any (which incidently i have no idea what that is either) chance?

Are you taking the proverbial.???? You dont know what a "cat" is, Catalitic converter...As all S2,s are before 92 ,, well most of them,, you dont need one for MOT time, so just bin it,,,...

Mark.
Your IS the first one ive heard of "exploding".... I suppose theres always one..!!!!!!!!!

TTM
Try asking Hartech or similar indipendants about cams....They have HEAPS of old worn out ones in there stores....Its all down to the chain that drives the cam...If that srtetches too much they buy buy cam teeth....[ Bit of an expert on this subject] as my car,s 968 + S2 BOTH needed new cam/s when i bought them....

Jase B..
Lots....[ sorry for the crappy relpy].. Ill do a better one when ive got more time....
It hasnt got 240bhp, but it gets close...

 

[Hilux]

I've never heard/read of oil pick up tube failure on S2, only on 968

Happens on them all if you`re unlucky I understand. Its a thin bit of pipe that holds the pickup filter and can stress crack due to vibration, particularly if the balance shafts are removed IIRC but can happen to any car at any time (if you are unlucky)

I believe most engine builders mod/strengthen this and also lengthen it a bit for race and track work I`ve heard.

 

[djcla]

ORIGINAL: Big Dave UK

ORIGINAL: djcla

decat it.

what does this mean? what does it do, ? is cat the catilitic convertor by any (which incidently i have no idea what that is either) chance?

Are you taking the proverbial.???? You dont know what a "cat" is, Catalitic converter...As all S2,s are before 92 ,, well most of them,, you dont need one for MOT time, so just bin it,,,...

Mark.
Your IS the first one ive heard of "exploding".... I suppose theres always one..!!!!!!!!!

TTM
Try asking Hartech or similar indipendants about cams....They have HEAPS of old worn out ones in there stores....Its all down to the chain that drives the cam...If that srtetches too much they buy buy cam teeth....[ Bit of an expert on this subject] as my car,s 968 + S2 BOTH needed new cam/s when i bought them....

Jase B..
Lots....[ sorry for the crappy relpy].. Ill do a better one when ive got more time....
It hasnt got 240bhp, but it gets close...

I realised it is a catilitic convertor (and no i really do not have a clue about engine stuff trying to learn sorry) i just do not know what they do and what effect they have on performance.

 

[333pg333]

^^Kind of like putting a pillow over the face of a snorer. Makes them quieter too.[]

 

[PJS917]

Have you asked this question on 968uk.co.uk? if so there are some answers there for you.

Yep, 968's do go through cam shafts at a faster rate than 944S2's but you can still measure that time difference in geological time. Both cars have foibles and both have limitations on modifications finacial being the biggest restriction.

Certainly as mentioned if you want to go faster, better air filter, engine management chip, and exhaust system is the way to go. However unless you are a 'hand' behind the wheel, the easiest cheapest way to go faster is to learn to drive. A well driven S2 will run rings round an averagely driven 968 on the track.

 

[morris944s2john]

How much extra power can you get from the 944S2 simply by a de-cat??

 

[MarkK]

Maybe exploding is a bit dramatic but one minute the engine was working the next there was smoke and it didn't sound very well at all,limped home to the pits opened up the bonnet and it wasn't a pretty sight like i said oil was everywhere[]Pushed it into a lorry...
I was gutted and sold the car pretty much from the compound of opc Notts,they took a while to fix it the guy who bought it was happy because he saw it was being fixed by the Porsche extended warranty,he used it for a couple of years and sold it,i came back to 951s[]

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: morris944s2john

How much extra power can you get from the 944S2 simply by a de-cat??

Not much in the way of peak power, but those who have had a de-cat and chip and run on 98RON have dyno'd with a few extra horses all the way through the lower rev range and reported the car is more responsive and quicker to pick up.

Take a look at the N/A table here and then look at the individual graphs listed at the top of the page

http://www.cannell.co.uk/944%20UK%20League.htm

I think my Debra Smiths car was the highest recorded bog standard S2 at number 5, all those above it are modified to some extent. Remember that Dynos will always be a few percent out and can't be taken as 100% accurate from one day to the next

 

[djcla]

can't find the link

 

[pauljmcnulty]

can't find the link

Works for me!

This is the same old argument we've had many times. If you want an everyday car buy an S2, chip and decat it for smoother power delivery. If you prefer the shape of the 968 then pay the extra. If power is the goal, start with a turbo.

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: Diver944
I think my Debra Smiths car was the highest recorded bog standard S2 at number 5, all those above it are modified to some extent. Remember that Dynos will always be a few percent out and can't be taken as 100% accurate from one day to the next

I'd like to claim that accolade as mine, but strictly speaking mine is modified slightly (holes in the airbox.)

I must get around to a chip and air filter sometime soon. Too many other projects on at the moment tho' (most of which the wife seems to give a higher priority to. New Kitchen? Yes dear ... !)


Oli.

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: Big Dave UK
TTM
Try asking Hartech or similar indipendants about cams....They have HEAPS of old worn out ones in there stores....Its all down to the chain that drives the cam...If that srtetches too much they buy buy cam teeth....[ Bit of an expert on this subject] as my car,s 968 + S2 BOTH needed new cam/s when i bought them....

I am not saying S2s do not eat camshafts, I am saying 968s eat their camshafts more quickly.
Also, in the strictest sense of the term, a chain does not actually "stretch", only its rollers wear out thus the chain getting "loose".
It will always happen more quickly on the 968 as tensioner pads move up and down, adding strain on the rollers further than on the case of the fixed pads of the S2.