993 RSCopies?

[Richard Dawson]

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/985122.htm

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/875984.htm

A pal of mine (who currently has a Cayman 3.2 S) wants to exit the land of depreciation motoring and get an interesting 911 for c £40k which also has potential for long term price growth.

Use as second car with some trackdays/'Ring use.

Top of list is 993 RS but budget a little short.

What would you do? 964rs? One of the cars in links?

All thoughts welcome!

Kind regards

 

[harry]

I don't think the RS copies will appreciate if this is what your friend is thinking. I don't think he should look at cars as investments - unless he buys the genuine very low mileage specimens which are destined to be collectors items. If he has 40K to spend, what about 911 Speedsters? I don't think 40K will get you a low mileage RS of any variant.

Harry

 

[Richard Dawson]

The other thing i thought of was a 3.2 CS?

 

[silver7]

I actually like the second car, looks sorted and fairly maintenance free. The only thing that puts me off is the sunroof. A non genuine won't appreciate as much a genuine car but if you look at the price rises of replica 2.7 RS cars I think they will rise. GT classics have a nice silver replica for sale which is v nice (saw it last week)

I don't think there is anything wrong with a higher mileage cars, maybe a 964 rs with mileage would be possible?

 

[harry]

ORIGINAL: Richard Dawson

The other thing i thought of was a 3.2 CS?

I don't know the market for 911 Clubsport but he should be able to get a nice one for that price. I like the Clubsport [8D]

Harry

 

[Talat]

I'd try and find a 964RS personally and a 3.2 CS is not a bad shout either. If I had to choose then out of the two above I'd go for the black car - looks to me that it has got more genuine RS bits on it.

 

[clubsport]

Depends what he needs from the car a 3.2CS is a better track car than the 964 RS is a road car......CS is fun, but it is not as special as an RS.

These RS "replicas" have the ammount of work reflected in their asking prices, why not go for a low miles 993C2 in excellent condition...you should get one for approx £30k (they are available cheaper in various conditions), assuming the car was look after I can't see it losing money and will always be sought after.

 

[oldtimer]

hi Richard , its going to be hard to tick all the boxes on this one !

Personally , I dont think its worth buying any car that does not grab you , and not all Porsches have the same appeal , one man's meat is another man's poison etc.
On the water cooled side of things , I think the Mk 1 GT3 was made in low enough numbers to qualify as something that can appreciate in the future. Its comfortable enough to use as a road car if you avoid scraping the front off on speed bumps , ferries etc , and is quick enough to enjoy on track , with potential to be warmed up further. Can be got for the £40k budget.
On the air cooled side of things , you will struggle to get a decent 964RS for £40k I'm afraid. Maybe if the recession continues and supply exceeds demand that will change , right now the LHDs are going back to the Fatherland at big Euro price tickets and the RHDs are rare enough to stll get a premium price.
The only sort of 993RS you will get is an insurance write off that need to be rebuilt or a replica.

A classic 2.4 engined 911S in good shape can be had for over £30k less than £40k and prices have been firming upwards on these cars but you get very nervous about rust so winter use is out and even getting it wet is not recommended. Maybe Nick Moss can chime in on this and related options like 2.7RS replicas for around £40k mark

So, the 3.2 Clubsport is maybe best all-rounder . When I was looking for one in 2001 , could have got a good one from a fellow PCGB member for £23k , and today could probably get one for similar money ( £26k ? ) however more miles on the clock .
For what its worth, I actually ended up in 2001 with a £26k 964RS with 19k miles , now worth considerably more 7 years later with 45k miles !! But it's definitely a hard-core car , not a weekend cruiser , not an ideal second car especially if a cage is fitted...

 

[jamescharnley]

ORIGINAL: oldtimer


A classic 2.4 engined 911S in good shape can be had for over £30k less than £40k and prices have been firming upwards on these cars but you get very nervous about rust so winter use is out and even getting it wet is not recommended. Maybe Nick Moss can chime in on this and related options like 2.7RS replicas for around £40k mark

just to add to this ... you'll struggle to find a decent 2.4S for less than £40 K at the moment... but you could find some very nice pre-73 Porsches in the £20K-£40K bracket & the early cars have a character al of their own + are great fun

 

[Nick Moss]

I'm not sure how any early car would sit with your friend's requirements, especially after a Cayman S.

I have a LHD 1995 993 Carrera 2, that has had some light track preparation (6 point cage, harnesses, Recaros, 18" rims with Toyo 888s, H & W springs, Bilstein dampers and clubsport spoilers). It has proved fairly quick, especially in the wet, but still has a/c, sunroof and electric window. I could be parted from it as is or would be happy to make an RS rep from it for him.

 

[Steve Rance]

Interesting thread. My 993 is an ex UK 993 cup car that was based on a C2. It already has a 3.8 engine, lsd, motorsport abs unit and super cup suspension. At the moment I am having work done on it to make it a 993 clubsport replica which i intend to race. It will be almost an exact replica down to the seam weldeding, matter cage etc. The combined cost of the work required to complete the car - much was spent before I bought the car but I know the cost - is probably as much as it would be to buy a good lhd 993 RS. To be frank, to convert a 993 to produce a genuine 993rs replica is not financially viable and as such any conversion on the market will almost certainly be very flawed in terms of specification. The only reason I decided to invest in my car is that it has an interesting and successful history being a rare uk cup car and was already close to clubsport spec, plus and I have a reasonable chance of adding to the previous racing success of the car thus helping to enhance it's value. If the car was a standard C2, having established the cost of the excersise, I certainly wouldn't have even considered it. As already mentioned, unless the car is very special, I'd spend my money on a MK1 GT3

 

[jimmyslr]

Steve - what are you campaigning your 993 in? Not much interest in the Open and it won't exist for your car next year so interested in where you might take it. James

 

[Steve Rance]

Good question. Originally I wanted to compete in the Bill taylor hour endurance race at brands this year with Paul Mclean as my co driver. i think that we could keep a good average but the car wont be ready by then. As you say the Open is basically dead for air cooled cars so it looks like inter Marque if it's allowed. Ultimately I would like to race it in a historic series but it's not quite old enough yet. Can't bring myself to sprint it, It would bore me shitless..

 

[65 mat]

Sorry for sounding thick but what do you mean when you say the air-cooled cars are dead...are they no longer allowed in the open (not even Paul Mclean's GT2?!) or are they just considered to be no longer competitive?

Regards, Matt.

 

[jimmyslr]

There is very little interest in the Pork Open so far this year as many drivers have moved to GT Cup, Carerra Cup and others over last year or so. Last time I saw entry list for '09 it was half a dozen. I'm sure it will grow, but it will be modest. Next year the Open will be 996 and 997 GT3s only; part of a deal with Porsche GB. It gives somewhere for 996 and 997 Cup cars to go when they retire (at least that's my take), but leaves the 993s a bit lost as the quicker of those are not eligible for the Club championship and little else that I'm aware of.

I have an old 996 Cup car and 993 RS CS that are a bit without home right now hence my question to Steve. He's a quicker fellow than me so wondered what he was up to. I'm messing around this year doing an Open or two, a Britcar S1 or two in an Elise and might try a Caterham in the Britcar fill-in race that James Tucker announced recently. Like many people it seems like a year for more modest commitments and with grids down on size it's an interesting challenge as to where to race and in what. Answers on a postcard!

 

[clubsport]

Am I reading this right...part of the deal with Porsche Gb is that the open will be 996 & 997?....what about the ethos of a car club for enthusiasts...There must be something I am missing here?

 

[65 mat]

Indeed! Not much of an ''open'' class with only 996s and 997s![&:]

 

[Steve Rance]

Yep, I competed in the open in 2007 when grids were bouyant and the standard of competition was reasonable. In 08 many of the quicker drivers went to GT cup which offered bigger grids, closer racing and TV and basically killed off the Open. I Didn't have a budget to do Carrera cup so i did a few GT cup rounds but found it didn't work for me because although i got pole positions and some lap records I was racing against some 997 cup cars with 3.8 litre upgrades and aero packages that I could out qualify on a single lap but couldn't compete against over a full race distance. standing on a podium next to a guy with a car that supposed to be the same as mine that had 40 bhp more and extra downforce was a bitter pill to swallow so I did Carrera cup instead and did quite well. What i noticed was that the gap between the Open and Carrera cup was huge. Nothing can prepare you for the sheer speed and commitment of the drivers in Carrera Cup. These drivers are in my opinion the best GT drivers in the country and some of the best in Europe. As a guide, almost every Open winner who raced in Carrera cup as a guest driver (prize for winning the Open) was lapped by the entire field. Porsche have set up the GT challenge to replace the Open and as a feeder series for drivers looking to compete in Carrera cup, so its only open to ex carrera cup cars. Good idea? Not sure. To run a cup car properly - whether it's 96 or 997 - in the series is a 100K plus budget. to run in Carrera cup is 120 - 150K. I learnt more following Tim Harvey for 10 laps in Qualifying at Snetterton than in the whole season that i competed in the Open. I know where i'd rather be racing.

 

[clubsport]

Steve, congratulations on your success, it has been interesting following you and others over the last few years......it seems such a shame that the Porsche "open" has been transformed into the Porsche "Closed" championship.

I appreciate the once open, became serious in recent times, but as a club championship it was great for the enthusiast to follow with the mix of cars, apart from a few I never got the impression that many competitors had their sights on Mr Harvey.....maybe I am a little naieve?

There have been some great moments following Messrs. Howells, Mclean, JimmySLr and a particular highlight of Zub, driving to the circuit, winning his class, then driving home afterwards. to me that was what a club championship was all about and thankfully removed from ex touring car drivers arriving and driving with many hundred £k's worth of budget ....oh well can't stand in the way of progress...I am sure there will be many others apart from myself interested in this new format.....no point even mentioning club trackdays funding motorsport activities that Porsche Gb have decided upon.

 

[Steve Rance]

I understand what you are saying. To be honest, the Open championship was aimed at any driver wanting to race a racing porsche GT car. That in itself was a little flawed as drivers with Nat A licences could enter a GT1 under the rules of the championship. Not great if you find yourself next to them on the grid. The club format works well but with not much in the way of competiton, the open took on a more serious role in recent years seeing drivers Like Westbrook, Edwards and Shedden entering. From that point i'm not sure where it could go. maybe there is an agrument to make the open a seriers for 944 turbo's, 993 rs - rsrs etc.. and get back to a more club orientated format.