997 gen 2 will not start

[Rob Edwards]

Hi folks
Sorry if this has been already discussed in other threads, but I thought it might save me a lot of time just to ask the question.
I have a 2010 Gen 2 997S cabrio which I have had from new and has fpsh.
I used the car today, no problems at all, but when I came to start it an hour ago, there was just a frantic clicking sound plus every light in the cockpit and external lights just flashed on and off very quickly.
Needless to say I'm a little concerned, as I don't think it is the battery due to it starting fine up to now and no sluggishness in turnover etc.
Any ideas? Luckily I have 3rd year Porsche warranty, but if it would be nice to know what the reason may be.
Any thoughts or advice much appreciated before I call the local dealer on Monday.
Cheers
Rob

 

[Mark 997 C4S]

Sorry to hear of your problem Rob.
It could be almost anything electrical, but mine was quite simple.
I had the same symptom happen to me a few years ago and it was the battery that had not got enough power to start it.
I charged the battery when i finally got it home and it was fine for a while until it happened again.
I had to repalace with a new battery and it never happened again.
First thing i would do is check the battery state, plus the leads and teminals and replace if necessary.
Hope this helps.
Regards Mark

 

[garyw]

Sounds like a cell has possibly failed in the battery.
There was the earth strap issue but that seemed to be on older cars.. it may cause the same issues as you describe, however I'd stick with a dead cell.

garyw

 

[ellism]

Rob

I had a similar starting problem a couple of weeks ago, although in my case the car car had been sitting in the garage for a few days (albeit with my battery conditioner connected). First thing to stress is that when you call out Porsche Assist, do not buy an RAC battery from them. This will be covered by your warranty and you need to get the car back to your OPC so they can diagnose the problem and fix it free of charge. Because it happened to me on Sunday I came quite close to putting the new battery in, but decided to hold off and chatted to Porsche Hatfield on Monday morning. Within an hour or so it was on its way up to them on a flat bed truck and I had the pleasure of driving a BMW 5 Series for a couple of days (what a boring car!)

Diagnosis on my car was a dead battery cell and I got it back with a new battery and all costs covered under my extended warranty.

Good luck

Regards

 

[Glyn]

Sudden failure of the Porsche Moll battery is quite common, so, unless you left something powered up and discharged the battery i would suspect its that.
Check with Porsche but isnt the battery a consumable and therefore not covered by warranty? - never heard of a battery being covered by any manufacturer.

The "click" you hear is the starter solenoid being energised and engaging the starter pinion to the ring gear, then the full power of the battery is drawn by the starter to turn the engine over - however, as there is insufficient power in the battery the drain depletes the available power that energises the solenoid - so it disengages - the battery then has sufficient power to re engage the solenoid - and so the cycle continues - What you hear is a rapid series of clicks and no start.
The warning lights confirm this is a battery problem.

If you fit any battery other than a Porsche battery you will invalidate the warranty - usually its over three years old when the battery dies and most of us fit a Bosch S5 battery because its a better battery with a 5 year guarantee and is a third of the price of the Porsche battery.

Hope Ellis is correct and Porsche replace it for free, but i would be astonished.

 

[Rob Edwards]

Thanks guys
If its just a dud battery that will be a relief, as it seems some of you have had exactly the same symptoms.
I had a battery fail on my old 2005 997S, and it was rather different in that there was no frantic clicking and none of the '70s Disco' flashing of every light (dashboard/warning lights/PCM/and even the reading lights and puddle lights in the doors, a well as the outer headlights/indicators etc).
Funny thing was that a few hours earlier it was absolutely fine.
However, as is alluded to, a battery cell can just fail, and perhaps it has left it with some juice, just not enough to start the engine.
I will let you know what happens when I phone the dealer tomorrow. If they replace the battery under extended warranty I will also be (pleasantly) surprised, but you never know![]
Thanks for the advice and information[]
Cheers
Rob

 

[ellism]

Prepare to be pleasantly surprised. If they don't do it under warranty, feel free to ask they why they did for me!

Best

 

[garyw]

ORIGINAL: ellism
Prepare to be pleasantly surprised. If they don't do it under warranty, feel free to ask they why they did for me!

I only know of one or two people to of had their batteries replaced under extended warranty- one being above []
Warranty on the battery itself I know of, but Porsche extended warranty- not.

Keep us updated and let us know if they do cover it..

 

[Robin M]

One thing people do not do is regularly top up the Acid with distilled water. This and putting a trickle charger on the Battery has meant that my original battery on the Boxster lasted until I sold it and maybe longer 6 years+ Of course maybe I was lucky. The Current one on the Cayman is 3 1/2 years and counting.... You won't get a new Battery on extended warranty but if its less than 3 years old I would ask for a new one as its a manufacturing issue????? Batteries should last 3 years IMHO.

 

[Motorhead]

ORIGINAL: Robin M

One thing people do not do is regularly top up the Acid with distilled water. This and putting a trickle charger on the Battery has meant that my original battery on the Boxster lasted until I sold it...

Good call on that Robin - you've just reminded me to check my acid levels especially when using a battery conditioner.

There was a time when this was a weekly check for us all, but with the advent of so-called "sealed-for-life" batteries we've got out of the habit.

Jeff

 

[Rob Edwards]

Right ho, update, and all is well.

As suspected, the issue was the battery. Porsche Assist were very good and got to the car within 2 hrs (I told them it was not urgent as it was on the driveway) and the local chap who attended knew his way around Porsches and quickly had the engine running with a jump pack. He suspected a damaged cell so recommended taking it to a local battery/tyre specialist for free checking. They checked and the print out showed loss of charge in one/some of the cells, so a new charged battery was fitted.

All is well, and she's running like a dream again. Funnily enough, the battery of my old 997S coupe failed after around 3 years from new, and the Porsche Assist chap said battery failure was a common reason for all outs for Porsches, so there may be a lot of truth in what was said about checking acid levels and conditioning the battery - certainly can't hurt!

Thanks for the advice chaps!

Rob

 

[garyw]

When we visited Porsche assist service desk at the RAC centre by Birmingham as a register trip a while back, the team said that most calls outs were batteries and tyres (being as we now have no spare)
The only time I ever had to call them was for a trip on the back of a low loader due to a tyre failure on one of the days out.[]

I would have called them another time, which was for a battery failure at 4 years old, like you the car was fine and then suddenly that was it!!
Luckily I was at home and had a charger, so gave it a boost and got it the the OPC.. - complete cell failure

Glad it was sorted, and hopefully they cleared any fault codes, it's been known to have a few funny quirks after an episode of battery failure- windows going down etc..

 

[Rodney Naghar]

Is it possible for a battery to fail even if the fluids are always topped up and it's being trickle charged, or are they all doomed to fail at some stage?

 

[Lancerlot]

Rodney,
You've clearly not been keeping up with Brian Cox's BBC series as he says all things eventually degrade back to their natural state. As far car batteries are concerned, this seems to be on average around 5 years. They appear to last longer if the vehicle is used every day, rather than parked up and used sporadically.
Having said that, I've a 9 years old Mitsubishi 4 x4 that has never had any battery attention and is still going strong (kiss of death now, I suppose [&:])
Regards,

Clive.

 

[Rodney Naghar]

haha Clive, yes Entropy, I was watching!

But what causes a battery to fail if all the cells are topped up. Its not like there are moving parts, just plates and liquid. I keep mine topped up and trickle charged and it's lasted me 5 years already, just wondering if it will fail anyway, and we're all just biding our time.

 

[Lancerlot]

The battery plates sulphate which prevents the current from flowing.

 

[garyw]

Isn't it an ongoing chemical reaction- that eventually breaks down...
I'm sure there's a chemist or the likes on here []

 

[Lancerlot]

ORIGINAL: garyw

Isn't it an ongoing chemical reaction- that eventually breaks down...
I'm sure there's a chemist or the likes on here []

Oh, very well then if my previous post was not sufficient:- [] []

A normal car acid battery consists of a series of oppositely charged lead and lead oxide plates that divide into cells within the battery. The battery cells are filled with a mixture of 65% distilled water and 35% sulphuric acid or electrolyte solution. Electrolytes produce electrons and while under charge, the electrons move between the plates discharging energy in the form of volts. The lead plates convert this energy into electricity. Each cell can produce about 2.1 volts of charge which means a 12.6 volt battery requires six cells.

Battery sulfation impedes a battery's ability to accept, hold and deliver a charge. Sulfation eventually disables a battery's usability and occurs as the electrolyte solution begins to break down. Sulphur in the solution separates from the electrolyte and attaches to the lead plates and eventually gets converted into lead sulphuric crystals. The crystals coat the plate and prevent them from conducting effectively. This means the battery will be unable to provide enough electricity to the ignition coils to turn the engine over. The situation is made worse the electrolyte solution itself is weaker, because the sulphuric acid has turned into crystals and now delivers much less charge.

The weakened battery with its limited storage capacity and ability to give and receive charge adversely affects the battery's State of Charge.. State of Charge is the amount of electrical energy left in a battery. So the battery indicator on your mobile phone reflects the battery's SOC and usually represents percentages from 0 - 100%. To prevent sulfation, a battery needs to be kept in a fully charged state and, although disconnecting the battery might slow the rate of sulfation, natural discharge still occurs.

Phew, can I go and have a lie down now please! []

Regards,

Clive

 

[garyw]

ORIGINAL: Lancerlot
Oh, very well then if my previous post was not sufficient:- [] []

I'd converted into english for you []

 

[Glyn]

Wot he said,


but with the Moll battery everything inside queues up and waits until you park up then suddenly - and without any warning attacks the plates, buggers them up and Mr Battery dies, Oh yes and usually after two to three years.
Porsche would hate to hear of a battery lasting six years or more and will quickly order a redesign to ensure this annomolly doesnt happen again.