997 v 997 S

[Guest]

After a few months of RS6 ownership, have the bug to buy another 997. My feeling is that I want one that is comfortable for every day use, rather than for tracking etc.

Out of the loop - so need guidance

1. In Autocar, they seem to suggest 997 on 18" with standard suspension is the sweeter option. Thoughts?
2. Colours. Everyone seems to have black, silver, grey. Would like something else. Suggestions?
3. Are Park Lane good to deal with?
4. What are the must have options?

Spizz

 

[oliver]

That's a very good question.

Back in 1983, when I bought my first 911 I found that the basic 911SC was nicer to drive than the 911SC with Sport Equipment. And, ever since, I've always been entirely happy with the more basic models in the range. So, for me, a C2 manual coupe, with a few choice options has always been perfect and I've never felt short changed.

This is largely because the 911's dynamics all benefit from less weight. It stops, goes and changes direction with less effort and it rides better and handles better (on the road) on the taller tyres.

With regard to the 997, the car Autocar tested had the lighter ceramic brakes and this may have further added to its dynamic qualities.

Unfortunately the price difference between a 997 and 997S is not that great and, to many, it may be seen as the poor relation.

Shame, but to some people more is better. However, when it comes to 911s - less is often more (if that makes sense). Ask anyone who has an RS.

 

[Guest]

Oliver,

Thanks. Very helpful. Tje temptation to buy the S is because it is perceived as "the best" - not because it is. The reality is that I love Porsches at their simplest. I remember as a school boy in the 1960s being turned on by the 911 as an understated "touring" car while all its competitors - E Type etc were overdone, phallic, show off, agressive.

For the same reason, for me, a Porsche should be narrow bodied.

So, what are the essential options - and what colour?

Spizz

 

[Guest]

PS What is the view on ceramic brakes? Chris Harris seemed to think that light weight made appreciable difference.

 

[oliver]

Colour and options are very personal. But,

PCM seems to be de rigeur
PSE
Seats (personal choice)
Upgraded sound
For me, on a road car, heated seats and cruise are very nice and very useful
Ceramic brakes - if they were cheaper (say, £1500)
Probably a few other bits

Why not e.mail Chris Harris at Autocar. It was he who first declared the 997 to be nicer than the 'S'.

 

[Guest]

Actually - had thought about emailing him . Can't find his address.

Spizz

 

[oliver]

I think it's chris.harris@haynet.com

He probably gets a fair amount of e.mail, so best to be as specific as possible.

 

[Ronnie C]

Test drive the 2 and see what you think.

IMO, the base 997 lacks the braking system for this kind of performance car. Also, again IMO, the car needs to be lowered if you go for the 18" alloys.

For me it was either a 997 with PCCB or a 997S; I decided to go for the S. Try a car with PCCB - some people love it, others say it is too sharp a braking system and therefore not comfortable for everyday use.

Colour is a personal thing, but if you're looking for a colour other than black, silver, grey, then I've always liked white for the 911 (not that I ordered that colour on mine).

Options that have to be ordered at build stage and worth while are Bose, Sports Chrono, manual sports seats, sunroof (if you want it).

I feel the parking sensors are very ugly, so that option was a no no for me.

In hindsight, the tire pressure monitoring kit would have been very useful.

Other stuff like Sat Nav, mobile telephone module can be fitted after build should you wish.

 

[graham m]

As every one will tell you colour is very personel choice - i've alread had black, guards and silver so i went for Cobalt Blue. I was told at the time of ordering that silver & black are the most common - sorry 'popular' choices, followed by grey.
I think also the OPC's demo car has a big impact on peoples choice.
I had reverse sensors fitted to mine (been used to them on my Beemer) - but on the 997 they are so subtle, you're hard pressed to see them.
I drove a 997 back to back with the S version as soon as the car came into the show room last year. The biggest noticable difference was in the braking department. So perhaps a 997 on ceramics may negate that - but its a 6K option so defeats the object surely? The S gets bigger brakes, and litronics aswell - plus other bits.
The sat-nav is good and relatively straight forward to use - again easier and better than the BMW version. Personally I didn't like the Bose set up - too much bass, plus the cockpit is so small it's like wearing headphones anyway! Plus the standard system has about 10 speakers.
The choice is yours!
Graham

 

[Guest]

Helpful

Going to try 997 and S back to back. The Audi RS6 is a fabulous car (preferable in my view to a Cayenne) - but has left me lusting for sensitivity rather than power.

Right now, looks as if the must haves are:

Sat nav
Rear sensors
Sport seats
Xenons
PCCB
Shortshift

The maybes are:

Sunroof
Bose
Coloured belts

And the colours:
Cobalt
Guards
White - if I had the guts!

Will keep you posted - but any other thoughts would help.

Spizz

PS. Have asked Chris Harris and Colin Godwin for their views too!

 

[jonathanw]

I think my regular 997 cab is terrific and a much better drive than my previous 996 cab facelift.

I would strongly advise the PASM and the chrono pluse the 19 inch wheels if you are going for the non S car. Sports seats are fantastic ( my previous cars had regular seats) . Sat nav is a must for resale purposes and is well priced. My wifes Volvo XC90 cost £2500 for sat nav and phone to be added to reg spec.

The rear parking sensors are well worthwhile as are the Xenons.

The only thing I regret specing on my car was Homelink for the garage doors/gates. It cost me an extra couple of hundred pounds to update my door opener to become compatible with homelink - the door remote only cost about £40!

I have tiptronic and love it but am the wrong side of 50. It works very well with the Chrono package in sport mode. As for the S I am not sure that the extra power is necessary - the law of diminishing returns. The S will probably have the higher status but so what.

 

[Guest]

Jonathan,

I am 51 - so on the right side of 50!

Agree re status and law of diminishing returns.

Do you think 19" are necessary for looks or handling.

Does standard car have regular PSM?


Spizz

 

[jonathanw]

Hi Spizz


The car comes standard with PCM. I think the 19 inch look better and PASM I think is only available with bigger wheels. IMO the standard 19 inchers as supplied with the S look awful and suspect they are a pig to keep clean . I have the 19 inch Carrera Classic's - IMO they look great and verey easy to keep clean (including the insides - more room for your hands!). The handling IMO is awsome even though a cab.

Regards

 

[oliver]

I think you'll find that it's the 18" wheels that contribute to the nicer ride and handling. IMO 19" wheels are purely an aesthetic benefit.

However, if you go for a 997 on 18"s, then a later upgrade to 19"s is always possible. Alternatively, if you want 19"s from outset, a 997S might be a better buy.

 

[jonathanw]

The ride in my current 997 cab with 19 inch wheels and PASM is if anything better than my previous 996 facelift cab on 18 inchers. There is however more road noise with larger wheels.

 

[Guest]

as I recall the article in Autocar, Chris Harris' view was that the 997 handled best on standard supension with 18" wheels. But also , PCCB made an enormous difference to the weighting of the steering which was almost Elise like. His conclusion was that £5k better spent on the stoppers than extra BHP.

Do the ceramic brakes make such a differemce? What are the downsides? Are they reliable now?

Spizz

 

[Guest]

I've lost count of the number of times now that people have stopped me to tell me how stunning the colour of my car is. I was driving out of of Heathrow today and at a set of lights one of the courtesy bus drivers opened his doors and called across that he had never seen a 911 in that colour and that it was stunning.....

Be brave - choose a 'less popular' colour!

Tim

 

[Ronnie C]

I find the standard 19" S wheels very easy to keep clean. The only current offering I'd imagine being difficult to clean are the Sport Design ones.

Of course if you go for PCCB, then brake dust is no longer an issue. The main benefit is of course unsprung mass reduction. Taking off 1kg of unsprung mass is equivalent to 1.5 / 2 kg of normal car weight so it does really improve handling. However, if you go for PCCB, be aware to warm them up first when in wet conditions (ie GB).

19" wheels are purely for aesthetics. The 18" will provide better ride quality.

Sat Nav is a nice gimmick and great for boosting Porsche profits. I think you'll find most car sales people will tell you that it is a must have option, but experience will tell you that any additional option really has limited resale value. Like everything else, get it only if you want / need it "" not because someone wanting you to spend even more money is "˜advising' you to.

FYI, Sat Nav is something you can have fitted at a later date. Actually it would be interesting to know how many 997 owners with Sat Nav use it on a regular basis after the novelty has worn off "" but that's probably for another thread.

 

[robert997]

I've got the sat-nav, and it's not much good. At least if you order now you'll get the Traffic Message Channel (TMC) which is standard even on Ford's now but something Porsche 'left-out' of our 997's and wants to charge £450 plus VAT to put back in from August ! TMC is supposed to navigate you intelligently to your destination on the basis of live traffic information. That is the subject of another forum !

My 997S I adore, I have the phone, Adaptive sports seats (not sure they are really any better than the basic ones) parking sensors, cruise which I find very useful to avoid speeding on the M40, heated seats are good but the car warms-up fast anyway, the phone is awful (again another topic), Xenons are great, PASM is great, 19's are fine with the PASM. Got the BOSE, which has a vast range of settings which appear to make no appreciable difference at all, regardless of the type of music or volume ! Got the CD changer too, which is no longer necessary since the navigation uses a DVD drive in the luggage compartment.

DON'T get the rear wiper - it doesn't have a wash function so smears everything and I never use it.

Tyre pressure warning was knocked-off my order as not available on the early 997's, but may be an asset.

Colour, I can't believe no one has told you about SPEED YELLOW ! I wanted it but had to settle on Basalt again after pressure from the Mrs, but Yellow looks amazing on these. I went to the 997 forum meet at PCGB Reading, and one guy (apologies I forget his name) had a 997S in Yellow that everyone loved ! You must try to see it to believe it ! Also, another member had the sun-roof and said it hummed really badly when open on the motorway...

Good luck and enjoy it - you'll be happy whatever you choose !

 

[timhum2002]

After runing a 996 C4 for a couple of years I now have a 997C2S. My key observations are that in 95% of conditions 2WD is superior to 4FWD, the ride on the S with 19 inch wheels and standard supension setting is more comfortable than the 996, the larger brakes of the S are much improved over the C4, adaptive sports seats are a great toy and the colour of choice is Midnight Blue with Grey interior.

Tim