a 944 for grown ups

[George Elliott]

Ewan, "Lunacy" in my view

I understand the hankering - the 928 was the biggest thing Porsche ever did after the Peoples Car, the 356, and 901.

But all those projects were brilliantly executed by the brilliant engineering minds of key Porsche family members. The 928 was the product of the era after 1972 when the family were distant from the Company decisions. The early cars were greater than the sum of their parts, the 928 was less than.

Looking back the 928 is a fat bloated Lemon which was designed for the US Market, to compete with the fantastic V8 Mercedes SL and SLC Sports cars. (I have driven both, and the SLC 450 is without doubt the better car). Look at the W107 rear suspension to see why the 928 had to have a multi link rear to compete with the Benz.

I look at the 928 and see two 944 engines, and wonder how all that engineering - all those Pistons, valves, rods, injectors, fuel consumption, metal, wiring, can result is a car which is little better than a regular 944 in performance terms, and vastly inferior to a 944 with a K26/8.

There are a group of people who can only see "V8", and that floats their boat (no pun) but in design engineering terms the 928 was a Lemon and showed Porsche had entrusted the Company product design to a bunch of academics who knew everything ion paper, but proved they were clueless.

They never competed in Motorsport - (even the 914/6 with carbs on a 2.0L could achieve 6th at Le-Mans on one set of pads, and spend the least time in the pits.) Motorsport would have made the 928 look stupid. There was never a Turbo or RS version - why??

George
944t

 

[Ewan]

All of which might be valid, but the last thing I need is anther sports car. What I "need" is a stylish, large-ish, comfy, sports tourer - a true GT. All 911 variants are too small and too uncomfortable for this job, and my 944 is a bit too much sport and not enough tourer. Hence the only Porsche that fits the bill is the 928. (as I'm not keen on the panamera - yet)?

But you've put a cat amongst the pigeons mentioning Mercs, as my wife is super keen on a 1980's style SL (the 107 model). This suits her needs, not mine.

Maybe Father Christams will have to fit two classics down our chimney this year!

 

[Greg James]

I've had that merc for a bit of a mate 500sl they look a whole lot nicer than they drive. And this is a one owner and full merc serviced car. Not a patch on a 944. I can see what you mean about the 928 i like the old school porsches as much as the next one but they weren't popular for a reason when you could get them? But the heart wants what the heart wants. Get one and see

 

[924nutter]

Clearly the 928 is a marmite car but it's not a lemon. It failed to succeed because it was so easy to drive that it didn't suit the Macho man image of I am a hero I drive a 911. On the track it was the equal of 911s in many of the televised races I watched but ultimately I think the 911 just edged it because of its little over 1100kg weight. Versus the 944 968 only 944t, and a 250 t at that could better the 928 s4, and even then barely, and not flat out; and when My stepson came back from the US after two years, we put him, his girlfreind and their not inconsiderable luggage in the 928 and sat in relative comfort for the 110 lime [sic] journey to Bristol. (get it lemon/ lime?) That's four up! try that in a 944 without amputating a limb or having the stering wheel under your chest. It is convenient that we all forget what a lemon the 944 is when it comes to the sill corrosion.

 

[simkin911]

ORIGINAL: Ewan

But looks-wise I prefer the later shape, so it'll have to be an S4 or GTS. And it needs to be auto. I've got plenty of manual cars for that sort of fun.

http://www.eporsch.co.uk/928GTSSilver.htm

Looks nice to me!

 

[OLD_ian]

There is a chap in R19 who has a lovely GTS that he's selling. Looks like care has been lavished on it and the price ~£9k seems right. Had a look for the PH ad, but can't seem to find it.

ORIGINAL: Ewan

Coincidentally I have a Tubi on my V8 Maserati QP, and the sound is incredible.

Shan't be looking at the 928 GT, as that is a manual-only car. My choice is an S4 auto (let's call that the narrow bodied car) or a GTS auto (which do indeed have the more blistered rear arches, as well a few other minor visual differences to distance them from the standard S4, such as Cup mirrors and Cup wheels.) The GTS is more expensive, being the last and most powerful version, but I think I'd be equally happy with a basic S4. It'll most likely boil down to what's available.

 

[DavidL]

£9k for a good gts? sounds very cheap to me. Gt models seem to command 7-8 (with a few exceptions) and gts models up to £20k
Can't envisage a slush box in a sporty car - works for my old rangie mind. Perhaps I'd need to try one.

 

[OLD_ian]

Yes, I agree it does. It sounds like there's a pretty small market for 928s. So no matter what people say they're worth, they don't seem to sell quickly. It's his fifth 928 and appears to have been obsessively maintained. Looks and sounds great. Selling because he's bought a 996 turbo. John probably knows more about the car than I do.

ORIGINAL: DavidL

£9k for a good gts? sounds very cheap to me. Gt models seem to command 7-8 (with a few exceptions) and gts models up to £20k
Can't envisage a slush box in a sporty car - works for my old rangie mind. Perhaps I'd need to try one.

 

[charlieb]

Any luck finding the ad Ian? Or know whose car it is so one could get in touch? Been looking at 928's for ages and this topic has rekindled that somewhat. Similar cars still seem to be for sale to about 3 months ago so I guess you are right in that it is a small market.

Thanks,
Charlie

 

[OLD_ian]

No luck finding the ad. He had an ad on Pistonheads a while ago, but a quick look shows they've only got the last three weeks of ads listed.

I've chatted with him at the meetings a few times, but don't have his contact details. The esteemed Mr 924Nutter who is our R19 RO might know how to get in touch with him. John?

ORIGINAL: charlieb

Any luck finding the ad Ian? Or know whose car it is so one could get in touch? Been looking at 928's for ages and this topic has rekindled that somewhat. Similar cars still seem to be for sale to about 3 months ago so I guess you are right in that it is a small market.

Thanks,
Charlie

 

[Indi9xx]

If you are serious about this Ewan, jump on that £9k GTS, that is a bargain if its even just a reasonable example.

 

[George Elliott]

the last thing I need is anther sports car. What I "need" is a stylish, large-ish, comfy, sports tourer - a true GT.

Valid too Ewan when looked at in that light

Not sure of your views on depreciation, but a genuine SL, with its hewn from granite build quality, is in a different league to a, lets be frank, warped old 928 interior with the fit and finish of a Transit.

You have a marvellous toy box, - and a wife who contributes to it....[]

George
944t

 

[924nutter]

ORIGINAL: _ian

There is a chap in R19 who has a lovely GTS that he's selling. Looks like care has been lavished on it and the price ~£9k seems right. Had a look for the PH ad, but can't seem to find it.

ORIGINAL: Ewan

Coincidentally I have a Tubi on my V8 Maserati QP, and the sound is incredible.

Shan't be looking at the 928 GT, as that is a manual-only car. My choice is an S4 auto (let's call that the narrow bodied car) or a GTS auto (which do indeed have the more blistered rear arches, as well a few other minor visual differences to distance them from the standard S4, such as Cup mirrors and Cup wheels.) The GTS is more expensive, being the last and most powerful version, but I think I'd be equally happy with a basic S4. It'll most likely boil down to what's available.

I think I konw the gentleman in question and probaly the reason you can't find that ad anymore is that AC has sold his gts, guess waht he is looking at an S4

 

[Ewan]

The GTS at Eporch looks good. But the mileage at 130k is higher than I'd like. I doubt there's such a thing as a GTS at the quality I'd want for £9k - low teens seems more likely. But there could be well be a lovely S4 lurking out there for at least £5k less, and that suit my purposes just as well.

 

[TTM]

I like 928s very much and I have a soft spot for the '89GT in particular, but for the price they cost to buy, to run and to maintain I would drop a 3.0 engine in a 944T any day over buying a 928 and just trying to make/keep it right. The 944 will still be far nimbler, easier to use, more practical, cheaper on fuel, easier to fix, and completely destroy a 928 GTS at serious speeds (ask me how I know).
944s were built at the Audi plant back then when Porsche didn't have yet as much clue about serious mass production, and it shows in the quality of the finished products. IMO anyway.

 

[George Elliott]

"how do you know?"[8|]

Dont answer that TTM, but you raise a thought which IMO would produce the Ultimate transaxle Porsche.

A manual 928, seam weld the shell, strip the interior, Alcantara head lining, Recaro's (Black / triple Grey), RS Door panels, 968CS style carpet deck, 16" CS forged alloys, LSD, minus 20mm ride height, 3.0L or JMG 3.2L fully developed 4 cylinder (Augtronic ECU?) reving to 7000 rpm with 525hp and tipping the scales at 1200 - 1300kg

The car the factory should have built, call her the 928ST in touring as described or light weigh spec - especially as the parts are 95% standard and the production was only about 1 car a day at some times.

If Ferry had been in control he'd have done it even as a one off. The major advantages over a type 924 being track width, Weissach axle, aluminium panels, aerodynamics.

Go on Ewan......[]

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: Ewan

All of which might be valid, but the last thing I need is anther sports car. What I "need" is a stylish, large-ish, comfy, sports tourer - a true GT. All 911 variants are too small and too uncomfortable for this job, and my 944 is a bit too much sport and not enough tourer. Hence the only Porsche that fits the bill is the 928. (as I'm not keen on the panamera - yet)?

But you've put a cat amongst the pigeons mentioning Mercs, as my wife is super keen on a 1980's style SL (the 107 model). This suits her needs, not mine.

Maybe Father Christams will have to fit two classics down our chimney this year!

May be a bit new & expensive at the moment, but the 991 is now a GT car I think.... I was very surprised how much room there is in it, yet it still feels nice & compact to drive. For a fast saloon car I think the BMW m3 is hard to beat - e46 is a bargain now (and Andy Watson is selling one..).

 

[Ewan]

Sorry Ed - I've never been overly keen on BMWs. And I already have a Maserati QP to fill my fast 4 door 4 seat saloon requirements, and a Maserati Ghibli Cup for my fast 2 door 4 seat saloon needs. The idea of the 928 is as a 2 door (but 4 seat) sports tourer. Not a saloon, not a sports car, but a genuine GT car. Basically I need a car a lot like my 944, just bigger, softer and auto.

My big mistake was to actually sit in a 928 S4 for the first time, last week. It felt so right!

 

[924nutter]

ORIGINAL: Ewan

Sorry Ed - I've never been overly keen on BMWs. And I already have a Maserati QP to fill my fast 4 door 4 seat saloon requirements, and a Maserati Ghibli Cup for my fast 2 door 4 seat saloon needs. The idea of the 928 is as a 2 door (but 4 seat) sports tourer. Not a saloon, not a sports car, but a genuine GT car. Basically I need a car a lot like my 944, just bigger, softer and auto.

My big mistake was to actually sit in a 928 S4 for the first time, last week. It felt so right!

The 928 being longer, by a good margin, than the 944 is by far the more practical of the two see my post about the run from bristol four up with luggage. If you dont go mad and keep it at sensible speed it will only be about 6 mpg less that the 944. Trip computers are not the set in stone gospel, but it is known that the digitlal dash model can record 20 mpg at 100 mph. It is so high geared; can't look quick enough in second, 120 in third and 163 and counting in fourth (auto)