A bad start to my 944 experience

[bw64870]

So i jumped in , both feet forward, blind folded and with my hands tied behind my back. Its the way i seem to buy all my cars and it always ends it tears.

I did some research, but was actually looking at 924s with a budget of 2k. I intentionally didn't really look at 944 as with that budget the cars i did look at were very scruffy and stella mileage. Then one friday night a few weeks a go a lovely shiny 1987 2.5 944 caught my eye well under my budget. I bought it the next day. It looks great, interior is mint (well for the mielage), it drives beautifully for its age, smooth engine, quiet gearbox, everything seemed great. Except i didn't give it any well on the test drive.

It was a bit disappointing to find out just how much smoke i could produce on my way home. [][][][]

Since then i have had a cylinder leakage test done and it ain't pretty. two of the cylinders are just about ok, two are terrible. So for now i am just driving it gently and it doesn't smoke unless i push on. I will probably keep doing that for some time. The car is still great, i love the way it handles, the way it looks, everything about it infact, except the damn engine.

But, longer term what are my options. The specialist i went to see was very honest about the cost of engine swaps and rebuilds etc. But if i was going to do an engine swap is it worth getting a bigger engine from a later car, or hassle wise is it easier sticking with a 2.5? Or are they pretty much identical to fit? Will the gearbox handle the extra power and all those sorts of questions?

Sorry if this info is splattered all over the forum, i did try and search and it didn't come up with much.

Thanks
Matt

 

[barks944]

I would put a new gearbox in with a more powerful engine, not just for strength but for the higher ratios. Also you would probably want to consider better brakes and suspension. I don't think any of them would be a necessity although I wouldn't like to chance the gearbox blowing up a few miles down the line. I think an engine should be about 600 is we just got a recently rebuilt one with lots of coated parts and new filters plugs etc etc for 500 from a nice chap on Ebay so there are some good deals about.

 

[cococola]

I would just sorce another engine off ebay or on the wanted forum maybe?

 

[Peter Empson]

Sorry to hear about this [] I'd also recommend getting a good used engine when the time comes, there's lots of information here about engine swaps (the search only works if you limit the timescale to the last few months, it's a bit knackered I'm afraid) but they're all going to be pretty costly unless you do the work yourself.

You're right the gearbox is a weak point and as mentioned above you'd really want to get lots of other bits upgraded (brakes, suspension etc) if you go up in power by much. Better to spend a few hundred getting it sorted and moving it on if you want more grunt, but give the car a shot after it's sorted, they can be a real joy to drive as they are.

 

[barks944]

Cant agree more with that, I've got mine running well now and it really is great to drive. Really love a bit of late night driving in the 944 really makes all the effort worth wile, feels like your gliding along the road [].

 

[bw64870]

Love driving it even though i have to drive like a granny. I have been genuinely shocked at how sweetly it handles .

 

[JamesO]

Before junking the old engine, assuming the oil pressure is strong and has no worrying knocks/rattles it must be worth pulling the head off.
If the bores are scratched then its bad news other wise it can be saved rather than risk an unknown engine off ebay.

 

[944Turbo]

Bummer, might be worth trying some thicker oil, see if it stays in any better 15/50W might result in a bit less smoke depending on what's in there already.
Tony

 

[James_G]

ORIGINAL: JamesO

Before junking the old engine, assuming the oil pressure is strong it must be worth pulling the head off. If the bores are scratched the its bad news other wise it it can be saved rather than risk an unknown engine off ebay.

Agreed, I would always try to keep the original engine unless it's terminal. Matching numbers and all that.

 

[bw64870]

The current engine sounds perfect, starts fine, good oil pressure etc . In theory it has just had the head rebuilt as well . The problem is that its my daily drive and doing any work myself would be slow going and i would be without a car . And i would guess it doesn't make financial sense to pay somebody to take a look and then decide what to do . but then on the flip side i would assume that if i just keep running it then it will make sure that the bores are damaged . Does anybody ever do full rebuilds ?

 

[bw64870]

Yep . Will put thick stuff in in the next couple of weeks . I have put some smoke treatment in as a stop gap but made no difference . But it really doesn't smoke when being driven gently. Then when she blows its pretty dramatic so not sure change of all will help that much . But there is no harm trying .

 

[edh]

If its just had the head off for a rebuild (did you see any receipts or can you find out who did the work?) then that's your first place to look. Having said that, smoke on WOT sounds like piston rings. Maybe someone was talked into having the head re-built to cure this problem & then found out after the event that it didn't?

What was the advice / diagnosis from the people who did the leakdown test? - did they suggest whether it was valves or rings?

A replacement 2.5 engine does sound like your best / cheapest option. Matching numbers isn't a worry on a 2k car []

 

[bw64870]

I am probably putting 2 and 2 together to get 5, but i think that the guy i bought the car from, bought it from the garage that did the head work. The car is in stunning condition and has been looked after, but now had zero paper work and only 1 key. So my guess is that somebody got the head work done and then for whatever reason did pay up. so the garage took the car as payment. Its the only thing i can think of that justifies the lack of paper work on a car that has been looked after (even if not properly in the engine department!). I have no receipt of the work, the head has clearly been off and there is a sticker saying the belts were done about 1,000 miles ago, in theory when the head work was done.

if the head work was dodgy and valve seals or something similar were still the problem that it would be smokier all the time. The leakdown test was done at dsdmotorwerks (lovely chap) and he seemed pretty confident it was rings, and I have to go with his knowledge and trust that he didn't want any extra work done as he wasn't pushing me to get any work done (the opposite infact - recomended thick oil and treatment and live with it for now)

as for matching numbers, yeah, i think i can live without that. I paid just over £1600 for the car, it wasn't never meant to be a show winner [8D]... although it does look rather nice

 

[barks944]

it has just occured to me that my dads car that we bought the new engine for has the same symptoms as yours. Its fine when driving normally but smokes like crazy under load. The good news is that its been doing it for ages and hes done a ton of miles in it while waiting for it to die.

 

[edh]

It does sound like rings - I had a Honda that had a similar problem. You could have run it forever around town & never really known it had a problem, but take it to a track & you'd probably use all the oil in the sump in a few laps! [] I was quoted £2k for a rebuild, so replaced the engine for £1500 (and sold the smoky one for £500! [] )

 

[bw64870]

Its unfortunate because i was hoping to get back to doing a few track days a year after a couple years off due to the expense of kids. the only thing that would stop the oil running dry would be the black flag within a lap. The few times i have "accidentaly" produced a cloud of smoke it is thick enough to get people swerving out of the way (atleast i can get rid of tailgaters easily enough []) .

I have added a new option to the plan. Get a scruffy but mechanically sound 924s for track days. use that as daily drive while i fix the 944, then return to 944 for daily drive and fix up the 924s for track. i can see the wife going for that straight away

If random hero reads this... I can't reply to your PM it says you don't have PM enabled or something like that!

 

[ClubRacer]

I have added a new option to the plan. Get a scruffy but mechanically sound 924s for track days. use that as daily drive while i fix the 944, then return to 944 for daily drive and fix up the 924s for track. i can see the wife going for that straight away

How about this?

924S on ebay


Regarding your engine swop - just make sure you get a similar series 2.5 engine otherwise you will have to swop a lot of parts over.


Here

 

[Hilux]

It may be that its had work done and not bedded the rings in properly.

Ist (easy) step is to remove plugs, add some engine oil and test pressures, if they improve its rings, if not its valves.

If the bores are ok then new rings is an option

 

[barks944]

ORIGINAL: Hilux

It may be that its had work done and not bedded the rings in properly.

Ist (easy) step is to remove plugs, add some engine oil and test pressures, if they improve its rings, if not its valves.

If the bores are ok then new rings is an option

is that because putting oil into the cylinder will create a good seal between rings and bores.

 

[Hilux]

Yes, a hydraulic seal that will improve markedly the pressures when tested