A couple of questions from a newbie

[GregBarton78]

Afternoon all

Am about to make my first foray into Porsche ownership with a 944 S2. Having found a pretty decent looking example in need of a few small jobs, I could do with a steer on whether to run away screaming or if the below are all straightforward jobs:

Front Wheel bearings - Appear to be about £30 a side? Easy enough to home mechanic?

Steering Column Universal Joint replacement - Is this one of those innocuous sounding jobs that ends up with full engine removal or again, relatively easy?

Otherwise it appears to need a set of tyres and we're good to go?

Cheers

Greg

 

[PSH]

Hi Greg

Welcome to (future) Porsche ownership..

To answer your questions:

Front bearings are cheap as you have found and easy to change.
The steering column U/J is pretty straight forward but can take longer than you may expect. Also, when this U/J fails it can be a sign that the engine mounts have also failed. This hydraulic mount takes most of the weight of the slanted engine, it's also close to the exhaust and thus prone to fail. These are pretty expensive (not worth buying aftermarket mounts) and can be a pain to change, also it's best to do both mounts as the other side will fail soon after you fit a new mount on one side.

To summarise, if all the car has wrong is what you have listed then it could be a good buy, do check for rust in the sills, they rust from the inside and thus not always obvious. There is a plastic vent in the door shut which can be removed and using an endoscope you should be able to see if the sills have any problems.

I'm sure others will be along soon and point out anything that I've forgotten, one more thing, these are interference engines, so check when the belts/rollers and water pump were last changed.

Good luck

Pete

 

[GregBarton78]

Thanks Pete - great pointer on the engine mounts.

The car had belts and tensioners a year/3k ago. Rot free and dry stored. It has a fresh MOT with the above issues in mind.

I'm budgeting for a set of tyres, bushes and shocks once I've acquired it, but if I end up paying someone else to do the engine mounts & column, what sort of exorbitant sum can I expect to be shelling out?

 

[PSH]

Hi Greg

I'm afraid that I'm out of touch on current labour prices as all maintenance on my car is done by my son. I'm sure that someone else here can give you some idea on likely cost.
The car you're looking at sounds very promising..

Regards

Pete

 

[Waylander]

Labour prices vary wildly,

carrera engineering at £40 PH
to dealerships at £225.00 PH
parts are expensive no matter where you go
expect a £1200+ bill for suspension at least
genuine engine mounts £700, just parts
steering shaft if they have stock £180, just parts

so reading your posts and the things you wish to tackle,
think you might be looking at 3-4K if nothing goes wrong

 

[chrisg]

Greg - as above, front wheel bearings relatively easy to do, they are also adjustable to a certain extent. It may be that removal, repacking of grease then tighten up will be sufficient. Usually worth replacement the e shaped pressure washer whilst you're in there as they do wear - very cheap from Porsche,

C

 

[chrisg]

Actually the thrust washer = 911 341 663 00 - BTW u will need to have the bearings pressed out and back in together with the grease seal (usually do this yourself) - most local garages can do this very cheaply for cash

C

 

[PhilKent]

Pete, you say "The steering column U/J is pretty straight forward but can take longer than you may expect. ", what tips do you have? I've been under my car trying to remove last week and decided it wasn't worth the effort! Seemingly straight forward, but surprising lack of room to lever it off either end... Service manual isn't particularly helpful either...

 

[PSH]

Morning Phil....as stated above I take the easy option these days and leave it to my son, but it doesn't take him long to do it. IIRC he may loosen the column in the cab and drop the rack to give enough wriggle room to remove the U/J coloum. IIRC there may be a heat shield that needs removing too, not sure if this is on all turbo's or only the early cars like ours? It's possible that he may also loosen the cross member to help. I think that if the mount has also collapsed it may help to lift the engine back up a little. I'm only surmising on the last part but makes sense to me.

Pete

 

[PhilKent]

Thanks Pete, yes from experience so far it's not as simple as removing both heat shields, loosening the top and bottom splines, loosening the rack mount bolts themselves for wiggle room and removing the shaft. I'm sure I did it many many years ago, but it may have been on the N/A I had. I have a memory of that being a pain too! It's not a high priority job, so I'll take the easy route and leave it for now!

 

[GregBarton78]

Thanks all - glad I asked as will factor in the engine mounts and some other poor sod to do the steering column!

 

[russmw]

Thanks Pete, yes from experience so far it's not as simple as removing both heat shields, loosening the top and bottom splines, loosening the rack mount bolts themselves for wiggle room and removing the shaft. I'm sure I did it many many years ago, but it may have been on the N/A I had. I have a memory of that being a pain too! It's not a high priority job, so I'll take the easy route and leave it for now!

Might be some useful tips on this thread

https://forums.tipec.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=21602

Seems the bolts on the UJs have to be fully removed as the spline has a cut out the the bolts sit in. Simply loosening off the bolts still leaves them sat in the cut out.

With regards to working on the car it all depends on how handy you are with the spanners. I've done all the mechanical work on my 924 over the last 8 years including head gasket, clutch, suspension refresh, brake rebuild and have nothing more than floor jacks and a standard home mechanics tool kit.

 

[chrisg]

Russmw - good points well made ! - I too have done all of these on the 951 as well as taking out and putting back in the engine ! I always the most time consuming element of using a jack/ axle stands (relative to a 4 post lift) is getting the car securelystable up in the air. Best addition to my home mechanic outfit = air compressor and air tools !

 

[Waylander]

I rebuild the steering shafts, better than paying £180

 

[GregBarton78]

So after a beer too many I broke all the rules and bought an S2 online, blind, from a bloke I don't know.

It arrived Wednesday - no grief whatsoever!

So far the impending damage is one sill, which I new about, but the other is far from perfect. A set of brake discs is needed as well as putting some decent rubber on it. I had planned to find some D90s but quite like the wheels on it, so have corrected the rolling radius and width & will fit the 'right' size tyres on Saturday.

Initial impressions:
On the plus side, the paint almost matches on all panels, there's no smoke, the interior is damn near mint, barring a non restracting luggage cover and a little sun fading on the pin stripe section of the rear seats. Everything works and I'm remembering what my left leg is for after several years of DSG! It's pleasingly weighty and old school to drive.

In the 'To do' pile
Steering seems a bit vague around centre and some wheel alignment is needed. Nothing drastically off and there's no vibrations. I think a set of shocks may be needed as the front left feels soggy & its much happier in left handers than right.

Starts & runs nicely but is a little lumpy until its over 1500rpm, then pulls really well. Smells like it's a bit rich at idle?
Evidence that the belts and tensioners were done 2 years and 2000 miles ago - are there any common maladies here or am I staring at top end rebuild time?

Quite a bit of a whine from the transaxle once moving - from what I've read that's fairly common? No horrible clunks at least but certainly worth an oil change.

I'd budgeted to do at least one sill, replace the discs, pads, suspension and rebush everything so hopefully it won't run away with me.

(Yes I know the hanging baskets need sorting out)

 

[russmw]

Great looking car [8D]

The whining gearbox is indeed a feature and normally going with your gut feeling for what you consider acceptable is a good starting point. Maybe a quick check the of CV splined bolts as they have known to come loose or worse (I had 2 snapped on mine) but a gearbox oil change will help.

Sounds like you have enough to keep you occupied at the weekends but get the car out and driven at the same same time.

Enjoy

 

[944Turbo]

Looking good, Steering / wheel bearing / worn damper probably all connected and shouldn't be anything too nasty cost wise - lots of suspension options!
Wheels are cup 2s if they are genuine they will have numbers stamped by the valve stems, if not maybe a bit heavier than the 'standard' (on other Porsche) items.
Not sure about the lumpy running but I think with an S2 you should leave it to tick over for a while when the battery has been disconnected / reconnected one of the long term S2 owners might remember! Other than that worth a check on engine earths / connectors and engine temp sensor.
Also with any S2 a check on cam chain tensioner / cams is important if no history of them being inspected.
Enjoy!
Tony

 

[Diver944]

That does look nice [] Are you handy with the spanners and planning to do most of the work yourself? If not, whereabouts in the country are you and we could recommend some good independants and/or bodywork guys. I had an S2 for over 20 years (sadly gone []) and personally put 140,000 miles on the clock and it used to get a rough idle when cold every 5-6 years which would mean cleaning the idle stabiliser valve under the inlet manifold. It can be tricky to get out unless you have pianist fingers but a reasonabe temporary fix can be achieved by squirting carb cleaner into the rubber hose that leads into it whilst idling.

With 17" wheels it's important to have the updated caster blocks from a 968. They have much less rubber and secure the back of the front wishbones to the chassis. I had 17" wheels for many years and loved their look but as I got older I had to admit their ride is nowhere near as nice as the standard 16" design 90's. As luck would have it I have a set of S2 sized D90's for sale at £300 that are freshly refurbed and never been back on the car before it died [&o]

Vague steering could just be poor alignment but it could well benefit from a new refurbed steering shaft from Waylander. When setup properly the steering is pin sharp. What sort of mileage is on the car? Congrats on the new toy and welcome to the forum []

 

[GregBarton78]

Thanks all! Am based in Harrogate.

The car has 135k on the clock - there's evidence of the belts being done relatively recently, but I have noticed some oil staining around the cam cover gasket, so will have an opportunity to see what it all looks like in there fairly soon.

I restored and tuned a Hillman Imp about 20 years ago & still have a lot of the tools. I got pretty handy with a MiG welder (you had to with Imps), although it's a while since I stitched anything together. I'm happy to do the brakes, suspension etc myself. Fuel injection, ECU's and OBD are all greek to me as I was weaned on a diet of lusting after twin Weber DCOE40's.

Thanks for the pointer on the caster blocks - is that likely to affect the steering feel/alignment much? Am booked in for a set of fresh tyres and alignment check tomorrow. I have just noticed a slight flat spot in one of the wheel rims though so if there's an issue with that I may take you up on the D90s @Diver944.

First priority is getting brakes and tyres sorted out - am a bit lost in which bush kit I need to buy to sort all that out as well - there appears to be myriad sizes available for the same car.

 

[IanK]

I would add that unfortunately there are not many front suspension options for the S2. The standard S2 Struts are designed to be replaced as a complete unit - and it is not possible to purchase them anywhere. If there is stock anywhere it is likley to be 10yrs old (ask me how I know this)

The aftermarket suppliers don't have anything that bolts on to this car. The only solution I found was to purchase Bilstein inserts and get the strut casings cut and converted to take inserts by welding in a screw collar.

I recall there may also be a bolt in Koni option that again requires you to cut your old struts.

On a brighter note - the front springs and all the other ancilliary parts are available from Porsche at reasonable cost[]

Ian