Aluminium Wheel Nuts

[J4CKO]

What was the thinking behind the ally wheel nuts, do all Porsches have them ?

Never seen them before, found one decomposing in the boot under the battery tray, had gone all distended, do they make any difference, anyone gone back to steel ones.

Were they for unsprung weight or perhaps so they didnt stick to the alloy wheel.

What happens when you take a 944 to a fast fit place, the one near us apply enough force to a wheel nut to render it totally immovable, they can flip a small car over on wheel nut torque alone, god knows what would happen when they apply 2000 pounds torque to an ally nut designed for 93 llb/ft.

Anyone had any failures ?

 

[Copperman05]

Never had any problems with mine, if Porsche think they are ok I see no reason not to use them, very light, matching locking nuts also available. Just be careful where you take it, personally I dont use quick fit places unless I really have to.


Edd

 

[Lowtimer]

They don't have an infinite life. I didn't know how old mine were when I got the car, possibly original, so bought a new set.

The answer to the fast-fit question that is you never allow anyone from a fast fit place anywhere near your car, certainly not with an air wrench. Frankly I am very fussy about who is allowed to jack it up or put it on a lift, too.

For me, the people who are allowed to either lift the car or take the wheels on or off are:
- Me
- A recognised quality indy with proper Porsche experience, e.g. Hartech, Promax, Specialist Cars in Malton.
- A body shop or suspension specialist known to have proper Porsche experience, e.g. Centre Gravity, Daytona Coachworks.
- A small selection of other individuals whom I know well enough to know that they know what they are doing with it, usually because they are long-term owners themselves.

When I have new tyres I am prepared to have a local place fit them to the wheels, but I don't let them have the car. I take the wheels off myself, run them down to the tyre place in the back of the BMW, bring them back re-shod and balanced, and put them back on the car myself.*

If I did have to let a general purposes tyre place do it, I would start the slackening of the wheel nuts the first half-turn myself before supervising putting it on the lift, and only allow them to refit the wheels using a torque wrench set to the correct torque. No air tools. If they don't want to work that way, fine, I'll go somewhere else.

*And last time I did that I ended up having to ask a quality indy who they use to balance their wheels. What passes for near enough on a Mondeo or Astra won't pass on a 944.

 

[colin944]

Spot on mate.I always pull the wheels off myself and then take the wheels down to have tyres fitted and refit myself.I wouldn't let anybody put my car on a lift without being there to supervise.My car has had all the jack points removed( they just collect crap and go rusty). I use the torsion beam at the back and the chassis rails or rear end of the front arms at the front.

 

[DavidL]

I've had a wheel nut shear due being put on too tight by a windy gun.
They are never supposed to be put on with air tools unless at no torque just to spin them down the threads and even then I would have to trust a tyre place implicitly(which I don't) to allow them to do that.
There is actually a Porsche tool to remove sheared ones apparently.

Do them up by hand and torque them properly.

 

[Super_Marv]

ORIGINAL: Lowtimer

They don't have an infinite life. I didn't know how old mine were when I got the car, possibly original, so bought a new set.

The answer to the fast-fit question that is you never allow anyone from a fast fit place anywhere near your car, certainly not with an air wrench. Frankly I am very fussy about who is allowed to jack it up or put it on a lift, too.

For me, the people who are allowed to either lift the car or take the wheels on or off are:
- Me
- A recognised quality indy with proper Porsche experience, e.g. Hartech, Promax, Specialist Cars in Malton.
- A body shop or suspension specialist known to have proper Porsche experience, e.g. Centre Gravity, Daytona Coachworks.
- A small selection of other individuals whom I know well enough to know that they know what they are doing with it, usually because they are long-term owners themselves.

When I have new tyres I am prepared to have a local place fit them to the wheels, but I don't let them have the car. I take the wheels off myself, run them down to the tyre place in the back of the BMW, bring them back re-shod and balanced, and put them back on the car myself.*

If I did have to let a general purposes tyre place do it, I would start the slackening of the wheel nuts the first half-turn myself before supervising putting it on the lift, and only allow them to refit the wheels using a torque wrench set to the correct torque. No air tools. If they don't want to work that way, fine, I'll go somewhere else.

*And last time I did that I ended up having to ask a quality indy who they use to balance their wheels. What passes for near enough on a Mondeo or Astra won't pass on a 944.

Snap!

 

[bmnelsc]

ORIGINAL: DavidL

I've had a wheel nut shear due being put on too tight by a windy gun.
They are never supposed to be put on with air tools unless at no torque just to spin them down the threads and even then I would have to trust a tyre place implicitly(which I don't) to allow them to do that.
There is actually a Porsche tool to remove sheared ones apparently.

Do them up by hand and torque them properly.

You are right here - using air tools to spin the nuts on can build up significant heat if the threads are a little grubby - torque readings obtained on hot nuts are not accurate - that is why every place that changes tires has the warning to check your wheel nuts after 10-15 miles printed on their work orders - its kind of CYA (cover your ass - meaning theirs - not yours).

Heat cycles from power tools can affect your nuts because the nuts and studs are heated unevenly by thread friction - unlike the heating up they get from road friction and braking which will transfer heat into the wheels evenly.

 

[Frenchy]

They weigh 18 grammes a-piece as do the genuine Porsche locking nuts the reason is to keep unsprung weight down, do NOT ever let anyone use windy guns on them, i use a soft socket which has a nylon insert in them, i lossen and tighten them should i go to tyre fitting places.
They used to be £2 a piece now nearer £5.
As an aside the Porsche locking wheel nuts have a shear point machined into them to prevent people knocking an undersize socket on them to loosen them along with left hand thread extractors,
Ask me how i know []
Take a note of your locking wheel nut details now, i believe OPC's keep them all.

 

[graham.webb]

Oh don't get me going on this! I had two nuts stripped by a well known wheel restorer. Not even an apology, had to get the car back to my indie to sort it out. No official Porsche tool, just a 19mm hole saw and scientifically applied brute force but having done it many times they got the wheels off without damage!

Still smarting from this, I investigated further to discover that alloy nuts are supposed to improve turn in by reducing unsprung weight, but I then also discovered that steel nuts are available for use on circuit racers. Draw your own conclusions.....

 

[J4CKO]

Wont be taking mine near a fast fit, not after my Saab had the nuts done up so tight it took me an hour to get them off, utterly ridiculous, these places are staffed by uncaring, cack handed retards who take pleasure in breaking stuff, I had a Fiat Coupe turbo and saw some tyre fitter jacking it under the floorpan could see the jack going up but the car not moving, nearly punched him, big dent in the floorpan and no apology.

They all seem to have a bit of an attitude, like a bunch of cackling, greasy Hyenas, our local one is ok but even so wouldnt let then loose on Aluminium, I will march in and declare that "I have delicate nuts, and you ruffians must not touch them"

 

[Frenchy]

I managed to split a good quality 17mm socket (King Dick) after jumping down on a wrecking bar attached to it on a BMW i once owned, if i had broken down with a puncture / flat away from the garage i would never have released by the roadside and i would have been stranded...............kin tyre fitting monkeys !

 

[Cater_Racer]

What was the thinking behind the ally wheel nuts, do all Porsches have them ?

Got them on my 993 and my 964 before, I have a good tyre place about 20 miles away Buckley Tyre services
who supply all my road tyres.

They don't air wrenches on it and I always take my own torque wrench to finish off.

The 944 is a track car and so I always do it myself (or my son) we use an electric wheel gun, but always with the TW to finish off.

 

[edh]

On a related note - i have just cracked the second locking wheelnut key trying to get the wheels off my new 944 [][] I managed to get 3 of them off, but the last one just won't budge.

Why do people put wheelnuts on so tight? the car had new tyres about a year ago, I assume that's when it happened.

I have ordered another key from Porsche & will take it to a friendly garage with an air gun & see if that will work.

 

[david924s]

First thing I did was buy a soft socket for the wheel nuts and I make sure my tyre place uses it every time plus I always ask them to tighten up by hand rather than with a windy gun never had any problems. Bought the soft socket from Frazerpart Porsche, not much money but te first one I got would not undo the nuts the soft part twisted out of the holder, howver after contacting Max at Frazerpart he replaced it free delivery and a free gift to apologise for the trouble caused, the replacement has worked fine since.

 

[Hilux]

They don't have an infinite life. I didn't know how old mine were when I got the car, possibly original, so bought a new set

They dont - if the coating has gone or mostly gone and they are grey/white then change them.

 

[Lancerlot]

Used to use alloy wheel nuts in our WRC rally cars many moons ago and without problem. We would not tighten or loosen them with a wheel gun, but would normally spin them off this way AFTER loosening.

Subsequently the FIA/MSA outlawed these for motor sport as they were prone to stretched threads and metal fatigue, but I can see nothing wrong with them for road cars, provided they are applied correctly with lubricated threads and correct torque values. I would tend to life them and replace them regularly too.

Regards,

Clive.

 

[DavidL]

ORIGINAL: edh

On a related note - i have just cracked the second locking wheelnut key trying to get the wheels off my new 944 [][] I managed to get 3 of them off, but the last one just won't budge.

Why do people put wheelnuts on so tight? the car had new tyres about a year ago, I assume that's when it happened.

I have ordered another key from Porsche & will take it to a friendly garage with an air gun & see if that will work.

Ed, Is the locking nut alloy or steel?
If its alloy then don't attack it with an air gun as all you will do is rip the top half of the nut off. (If its steel go for it!
If you can I'd bang a 17mm socket on and try and get it off that way.

 

[edh]

It's an alloy (Porsche) nut - the key locates towards the base of the nut.

I know you can't grab the cylindrical head of the nut as it just shears off (already tried that..)

 

[DavidL]

Machinemart do a couple of sets of protected sockets for wheel nuts for little more than some places Porsche related sell the 18mm one.
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/040224676

This isn't the one I have but maybe they have changed them.

 

[Oct]

I have steel ones on my 968, I think Berlyn sells them for less than £2 each. Removes the worry of a stripped nut.