Menu toggle

Am I Mad?!

sebrussellsmith

sebrussellsmith

PCGB Member
Member
I will probably be opening up a can of worms but here goes:
For some time now I have been toying with the idea of selling the 993 and getting a more modern 911.
The reason for this is that I use it as a daily driver including attending client meetings and battling with daily city traffic. Whilst I love driving it (apart from the heavy clutch and replacing the soles of my shoes) I don't love not having aircon on the occasional hot day we have in London and I just feel like it's time for a more daily user friendly 911.
I keep on telling myself, last of the air-cooled....... and I guess if it wasn't my daily driver I would keep it and use it on the weekends. But then, would I use it what with family commitments and so on.
Whilst I am not a big fan of the standard 996's, I do like the 996 C4s and turbo. I have not driven either and appreciate that the interior may appear a little bland to some.
Well every time I have this idea of selling up, I decide against it but with continued daily driving and 121,000 miles on the clock maybe now is the time to seriously consider.
Will I regret it......?

Any thoughts, ideas, and abuse you can give me or similar would be appreciated. Well perhaps not the abuse. [8|]

 
For

Firstly the 993 is the most dependable of all the 911's
996 servicing costs are lower
996 Turbo's are pretty bulletproof unless abused
996 Turbo's are early £20's now for either manual or Auto, dont understand why people buy the C2S or C4S when its the same or even more money!
Amazing performace and value for money
Easy to drive in or out of town, lighter clutch
IF you are looking early to mid 20's then 997 in your range(looks more like 993!)


Against
996's depreciation is a very poor i.e. the equivalent 996 is worth half your 993
Major issues with RMS and engine rebuilds in std 996
Looks on narrow bodies, personal
You'll regret it
Speed difference is scary 993 or 996 C4S to Turbo


Best to go and try a few see if you like them!

 

ORIGINAL: Gordon Attar

For

Firstly the 993 is the most dependable of all the 911's
996 servicing costs are lower
996 Turbo's are pretty bulletproof unless abused
996 Turbo's are early £20's now for either manual or Auto, dont understand why people buy the C2S or C4S when its the same or even more money!
Amazing performace and value for money
Easy to drive in or out of town, lighter clutch
IF you are looking early to mid 20's then 997 in your range(looks more like 993!)


Against
996's depreciation is a very poor i.e. the equivalent 996 is worth half your 993
Major issues with RMS and engine rebuilds in std 996
Looks on narrow bodies, personal
You'll regret it
Speed difference is scary 993 or 996 C4S to Turbo


Best to go and try a few see if you like them!
Click to expand...

Gordon, thanks for coming back to me. Do you know if the C4s and Turbos had RMS issues?
You mention the speed difference. I assume you include the 993 and C4s in the same bracket and refer to the turbo being that much quicker?
I see your point about why would anyone want the C2s or C4s if the turbo is similar money. I guess the turbo is possibly a little more ostentatious in terms of client visits etc - in times of austerity and all that.
And you say I'll regret it..... main reason?
Thanks for your input.
Seb
 
Interestingly I have about 120,000 miles on my '96 993 C4 manual (bought it with about 27K) and I use it as my daily drive. This includes frequent trips into London but I do have a/c that works very well.

I have decided several times not to change for a variety of reasons that include :

Low depreciation - I bought the car originally to get out of the cycle of the mamoth depreciation on BMW's that I'd owned previously.

Servicing / repair costs are probably a bit higher than a newer model as I'm slowly replacing most parts that are wearing out but the costs are still way below any depreciation on a newer model.

The newer models are more complex and I suspect relialility (particularily of the electronics) may be an issue as 996's & 997's get older.

Built quality seems better on the earlier models and therefore I believe they will 'age' better.

So I think if you go for a later model you'll probably need to think about changing it more frequently.

Because the car is quite old now people tend to view it quite differently to a 996 or 997 which they would see (especially the 997) as an expensive vehicle (despite the actual comparison of the value to a 993). When I first got the 993 I also had another vehicle that I used to take to client sites to avoid any 'issues' about owning an expensive vehicle - that's no longer a problem with the age of the 993. Client perception (right or wrong) is important in my business.

Of course it's great fun to drive on road or track!

Ultimately it's horses (or 911's) for courses - go test drive a 996 and 997 and see if they're better for what you need. If you're looking at 996's then the turbo could be a better bet as I believe that the engine is basically a 993 bottom end with the 996 water cooled heads - so it doesn't suffer from the 996 engine problems that you hear about.

Regards
Anton

 

ORIGINAL: Gordon Attar

For

Firstly the 993 is the most dependable of all the 911's
996 servicing costs are lower996 Turbo's are pretty bulletproof unless abused
996 Turbo's are early £20's now for either manual or Auto, dont understand why people buy the C2S or C4S when its the same or even more money!
Amazing performace and value for money
Click to expand...


Not sure that 996 will have lower servicing costs.

I've had both and agree the only 996 to buy is the turbo. I loved mine. But it was costly to maintain and I wasn't using it as a daily driver. Things like the front heat exchangers that wrot (£2k to replace), there wasn't one year of ownership when the local OPC didn't find a way of adding a couple of grand to the annual bill. Great, great car though, but I'm back to 993 now. Says it all really.
 

"Am I mad?"

I think if you have to ask the question, you probably know that you are Seb [:)]

The fact that you've posted the question here and not on the 996 forum means that you know the answer that you want hear. So maybe you're not so much mad as just a little confused at present. Go for a nice drive in the country and you'll soon put your mind at rest.


 
Go try the 996 and 997 and then go get another 993 with an aircon - sorted [;)]. Seriously, I would forget the 996 - the looks alone puts me off. 997 is nice and if it was between 996 and 997, 997 anyday. If you really like the 993 then why don't you sell your 993 and buy one with an aircon?
 

ORIGINAL: harry

Go try the 996 and 997 and then go get another 993 with an aircon - sorted [;)]. Seriously, I would forget the 996 - the looks alone puts me off. 997 is nice and if it was between 996 and 997, 997 anyday. If you really like the 993 then why don't you sell your 993 and buy one with an aircon?
Click to expand...

Or I have aircon fitted?
 
Unusual to find a UK 993 without aircon ? But, if you don't have it, the best thing is to swap yours in for one that does. Some people prefer not having aircon (wieght saving and all that) so your car may attract a small premium !

From your post it would appear that your main problem with the 993 is the lack of aircon, so problem sorted.

Do not buy a standard 996, they are pants in my view and plummeting values indicate the market supports that view. Just research "D chunk", IMS, scored bores, RMS if you don't believe me. If Porsche couldn't even be bothered to design and fit a reliable engine, what does that say about the rest of the car. Same applies for the 996 C4S, although the looks are slightly better. The 996 Turbo/GT2 has a better engine, not prone to catastrophic failures, so you could consider that. It would have 10 year old supercar running costs though, so that rules it out for me.

Stick with the 993.

Just my $0.02
 

[/quote]

Not sure that 996 will have lower servicing costs.

I've had both and agree the only 996 to buy is the turbo. I loved mine. But it was costly to maintain and I wasn't using it as a daily driver. Things like the front heat exchangers that wrot (£2k to replace), there wasn't one year of ownership when the local OPC didn't find a way of adding a couple of grand to the annual bill. Great, great car though, but I'm back to 993 now. Says it all really.

[/quote]

To clarify my points to all the emails and in no particular order :-

I only meant servicing not ongoing maintenance.

Had a 993 Turbo wouldnt say the maintenance was any higher than a std 993.

Regarding Maintenance, I have had a look at a lot of cars recently and the number of invoices I am seeing from OPC's and specialist garages that are OTT is saddening, i.e. running at double what I would be expecting to pay. I'm reminded that the OPC techies used to be on incentives to charge for more work, so many people have had a bad experience, with OPCs. I dont know if they still are. Anyway from my recent experience OPC Cheshire big thumps up on 993 servicing prices i.e 24k service £650, 12k £480, 2 * cams £475, OPC Bournemouth appears ok and OPC Byfleet(Camtune), My 993 services though are still £200 cheaper. Specialists Northways, Steve Bull, Tognola, JZ.

Dont buy a standard 996 model you will regret it (Maurices post is spot on) versus your 993 plus also the depreciation. I think the 996 TT could quite easily be cheaper to run than std due to no RMS or engine issues which go through the range! and they cant possibly depreciate much more they are now the cheapest 911 turbo to buy therefore excellent VFM.

If you drive a 996 Turbo you will probably change out of your 993. The difference between a Turbo and a std 993 or 996,can be as much as 150bhp the performance is not comparable . From my past experience the difference is scary the first time/second time you drive one, when you put your foot to the floor, the acceleration just does not stop, the scariest part is how easily you get used to it

Buying another 993 with A/C is a good solution reference work etc

Reference 997's I mentioned for looks inside and out vs 96, beware of London based cars and automatics there are engine issues aka 996 appearing on cars that have had easy city lifes blowing when opened up out in the 'country"

Please note this is based on me owning various 993's, I will admit to having a 996TT which may not been evident from my first comments.


 
If you do buy a 993 with aircon then make absolutely sure it works properly as it is unbelievably expensive to repair if not.

Get it written into the purchase order that you are buying the car partly because of the working aircon. I did - a week after purchase it stopped working and it cost nearly £3k of warranty work to put right as they chased leaks in condenser then evaporator etc etc all of which had to be replaced.

So many are fobbed off with a gas recharge and then just put up with the situation !!
 
I think that you would be very disappointed with the build quality of modern Porsche 996/997 and the rate at which they consume parts which would last 100k on an old 993!
996/7 turbo running costs are super car high although the engine is unlikely to be the source of the troubles, it's about the only thing that will be OK. Tyres ,brakes ,radiators, suspension joints all wear quicker than you would be used to. The performance will be impressive but that's all modern cars for efficiency . 50k on a 997 is about equivalent in wear to a 100k on an old air cooled one,Whilst it may feel tight to drive under the skin all sorts of issues will be coming to the fore.
I do like the modern performance of the 996/7 models but i wouldn't want to run one after seeing first hand what goes wrong with them all to often and this is before you get in to the depreciation .I think their are lots of better built modern cars out there if that's what your after.
Cj
 
Did that, cheap car was the 944T <£5k look at 944 forum there is a higher mileage one thats had everything done that would make a good day car, with added fun.
 

ORIGINAL: sebrussellsmith

.....The reason for this is that I use it as a daily driver including attending client meetings ....
Click to expand...

I don't often take my 993 to client meetings but last week I had an opportunity to visit a customer down the A68. I'm sure it helps me sell. People I did not expect to meet at the client gather around the car and want to talk about it - in a way that I just can't imagining happening with a "modern" Porsche.

Carry on driving the 993!
 
Maurice and Porker hinted at something you ought to know:

the 996 turbo and 996 GT3 did not have the same "consumer" base engine as the other 996's (incl C4S). Instead they were separate "race" developments based partly on the air-cooled engine design.

Maybe the 996 engine failures are overplayed a little (never had a 996) but have you seen one inside and out? I guess some people like its vanilla-slab looks now but in 10 years I will be happy to still look and engage with my 993.
 
Seb,

Same colour as yours, low mileage and a/c.....

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3190198.htm

only problem is change over cost and replacing items which will need replacing due to age.
 

ORIGINAL: Russell Wheatley

Seb,

Same colour as yours, low mileage and a/c.....

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3190198.htm

only problem is change over cost and replacing items which will need replacing due to age.
Click to expand...

Hi Russell - thanks for that, appreciated. This is a lot more than what I paid for mine albeit lower mileage. Also there is always the chance that if I buy another one I will still have to spend a substantial amount of money getting the car up to scratch i.e. shocks , replacing wishbones etc.. plus I would have to fit cup wheels as I prefer them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members

Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of the Club, who shall have no liability in respect of them or the accuracy of the content. The Club assumes no responsibility for any effects arising from errors or omissions.

Porsche Club Great Britain gives no warranties, guarantees or assurances and makes no representations or recommendations regarding any goods or services advertised on this site. It is the responsibility of visitors to satisfy themselves that goods and/or services supplied by any advertiser are bona fide and in no instance can the Porsche Club Great Britain be held responsible.

When responding to advertisements please ensure that you satisfy yourself of any applicable call charges on numbers not prefixed by usual "landline" STD Codes. Information can be obtained from the operator or the white pages. Before giving out ANY information regarding cars, or any other items for sale, please satisfy yourself that any potential purchaser is bona fide.

Directors of the Board of Porsche Club GB, Club Office Staff, Register Secretaries and Regional Organisers are often requested by Club members to provide information on matters connected with their cars and other matters referred to in the Club Rules. Such information, advice and assistance provided by such persons is given in good faith and is based on the personal experience and knowledge of the individual concerned.

Neither Porsche Club GB, nor any of the aforementioned, shall be under any liability in respect of any such information, advice or assistance given to members. Members are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times.

Porsche
Lockton
Pirelli
Officially approved
Oracle Finance
WEX Esso
Collecting Cars
Archant Dialogue
Back
Top