Anybody have one of these fitted

[diabloam]

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/salla400_Porsche_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ15809451QQftidZ2QQtZkm

I am considering getting new spoiler for back of my turbo. There three options, the bridge spoiler, the hoop spoiler and the 4 piece hoop spoiler. Anybody got any of these spoilers fitted. I aint that fond of the rubber one so wish to replace it. Also any linkls of pics of these fitted as struggling to find some pics, especially of the 4 piece hoop spoiler. think these are sold by porscheshopuk also. Thanks for any help

 

[zcacogp]

Erm, I can't help, and I can't really see the difference between the options in those pictures. One is painted red, the other black, but that's about it.

Instead of trying to judge based on crummy little pics on an ebay advert, why not have a look at some fitted to cars, and ask the owners what model they are and where to get them from. You are more likely to end up with the one you really want that way, I'd have thought.

(Also, as far as I was aware, there were two spoilers fitted to 944's - the rubber one, and the bridge one. I'm not sure what the others are ... maybe I'm being thick!)


Oli.

 

[John Sims]

Oli is correct on all counts.

The 968 had some variation with the adjustable Turbo spoiler but that was about it.

Alternative GRP spoilers have been around for some time and some/most are complete dross. Fit is generally poor and they seem to fail spectacularly with the side sections and lip under the spoiler.

As Oli says; see one fitted, in the flesh, first.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Apparently the side sections have a tendancy to detatch, and the fit is as John says poor. These might be fine, but a used tailgate with bridge spoiler will be around £400, so ask yourself why a new one is so cheap. I'd certainly want to see it on a car.

 

[stevespic]

WHY do you hate the rubber spoiler so much ...I was thinking of changing my rear spoiler to a bridge type for a more sportier look but when i started to look at a load of pictures for ideas i noticed the 924 GT, http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo/186299,13366,0,0/1980_Porsche_924_GT_Photo.aspx I then realised that the spoiler on my car was the closest i was going to get to the one used on the Le Mans cars back in the days...And for that reason its staying.

 

[Peter Empson]

ORIGINAL: spic01

WHY do you hate the rubber spoiler so much ...I was thinking of changing my rear spoiler to a bridge type for a more sportier look but when i started to look at a load of pictures for ideas i noticed the 924 GT, http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo/186299,13366,0,0/1980_Porsche_924_GT_Photo.aspx I then realised that the spoiler on my car was the closest i was going to get to the one used on the Le Mans cars back in the days...And for that reason its staying.

Great link, loads of cool pics there, thanks! []

As for the spoiler I say go for whatever floats your boat. I've always fancied the Le Mans spoiler although I bet it doubles as a great bird bath if you dont keep the drain holes clear []

I would however suggest that whatever you go for a 944 deserves a proper spoiler, cheap looking parts will really spoil the whole look.

 

[pal944]

I got the four piece spoiler from van sweeden a couple of years ago its been on my car over 2 years now and it has not broken or fallen of! it was easlier to fit ihe new one than to take the old one off. If i get my car back from the spray shop and the new clutch is fitted i might be going to the front runner if you are going!

 

[Peter Empson]

Mine's a VZ one too, no complaints from me either (it's not as nice as the genuine thing but is functional and a lot cheaper!).

 

[pauljmcnulty]

As for the spoiler I say go for whatever floats your boat.

Yes, but a chap who's raced the 944 told me that the rubber spoiler is actually more effective than the bridge. I'd guess that the tea-tray was from the days when Porsche wanted a 944 to stay connected to the autobahn at full speed, whereas the bridge was an attempt to give the run-out model a more modern look regardless of it's aerodynamic efficiency?

 

[Peter Empson]

Lol, well perhaps it was intentional to reduce drag []

Seriously though there's much less of a lip on the bridge spoilers than the standard rubber one (which I guess acts a bit like some kind of Gurney flap) so it makes some sense. My adjustable spoiler was a big improvement compared to running without a spoiler, and I think it was an improvement over the original one but I didn't manage to do a back to back test unfortunately.

 

[sawood12]

+1 for the rubber spoiler!! Though I severly doubt that either the rubber or the stock bridge spoiler are that effective and are there for asthetic purposes rather than any actual aerodynamic effect.

If you consider that the wing off a B747, which is an extremely efficient wing even by modern day standards, only develops as much lift per square inch equivalent to a baby sucking on a straw, then even if the rubber and bridge spoilers were as efficient as a 747 wing the actual amount of downforce created would be grammes given the puny number of square inches they have. And i'd bet my bottom dollar that niether the rubber or bridge spoilers are anywhere near as aerodynamically efficient as the wing off a B747, so you're not even getting grammes of downforce. In fact you'd be far better off not having a spoiler at all and getting rid of the drag that both the devices cause. But '80's cars just had to have '80's spoilers!! What about that dining room table they attached to the back of the Sierra Cosworths!!!

 

[Peter Empson]

Having done a trackday or two without any spoiler fitted I definately think they make a wortwhile difference. In relatively high speed corners (say 80mph plus) the rear feels a lot less secure without them and definately limited my commitment. I cannot remember much, if any, difference on the road however.

 

[xenon]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

+1 for the rubber spoiler!! Though I severly doubt that either the rubber or the stock bridge spoiler are that effective and are there for asthetic purposes rather than any actual aerodynamic effect.

If you consider that the wing off a B747, which is an extremely efficient wing even by modern day standards, only develops as much lift per square inch equivalent to a baby sucking on a straw, then even if the rubber and bridge spoilers were as efficient as a 747 wing the actual amount of downforce created would be grammes given the puny number of square inches they have. And i'd bet my bottom dollar that niether the rubber or bridge spoilers are anywhere near as aerodynamically efficient as the wing off a B747, so you're not even getting grammes of downforce. In fact you'd be far better off not having a spoiler at all and getting rid of the drag that both the devices cause. But '80's cars just had to have '80's spoilers!! What about that dining room table they attached to the back of the Sierra Cosworths!!!

As a square law I'm not sure that comparison to a 747 wing is sound, but I know what you mean. It is true though that the spoiler on the RS500 Cosworth provided 50Kg of downforce > 100mph.

Take off your rubber spoiler and get an assistant to drive whilst you stand up through your sunroof holding your rubber spoiler into the airsteam at, say, 80mph. Can you hold it flat into the wind? No. Could you when you were stationary? Yes. More than a few grammes? Yes. []

A fully-laden 747 8i is 439,985Kg with a wing surface area of 511m2. This means each square metre of wing must lift 861Kg. Each square inch therefore, lifts 0.55Kg. (one m2 = 1550 sq. inch).

So we have a baby who can lift half a kilogram of weight through a drinking straw. Not something you'd see everyday, I'll wager.

 

[diabloam]

interesting discussion guys. I know Porsche dont really do superfluous bits, so pretty sure rubber spoiler is fairly functional. I just aint overtly fond of its appearance, and liked the look of the bridge spoiler from the few pictures I had seen. Concerning the 4-piece van sweeden spoiler, where did you get them and do you have a picture of it. I defo want to change spoiler to something little more aggressive which I will spray to match bodywork, just not sure which route to go. I did a search for van sweeden spoiler but cant see anything on internet. How much is a new 968 bridge spoiler from those pricy buggers in Stuttgart I wonder. Any links to pics (dont like the 924 lemans one) of 4 piece, bridge spoiler or van sweeden.

Just to add my tuppence worth to silly spoilers, you do see some idiotic one on the go, generally the crapper the car and the more acme and baseball caps the drivers has the bigger the trolly handle is on it. However feel the 944 is enough of a genuine sports car to warrant something slightly more striking if that makes sense to everybody, but its always a fine line with styling as to what looks laughable and what looks cool if you follow me.

Got distracted on this front as my 944 left a sizeable puddle of power steering fluid on my garage floor today. Knew low pressure pipe from reservoir was leaking, managed to scut it back and reattach with new jubilee clip, anybody else had bother with this pipe (glad it wasnt one of the pressured lines). Anyway any links greatly appreciated, just need a decent look at some spoilers so can make a decision, cheers guys

by the way is this a original 968 bridge spoiler:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280210699701&_trksid=p2759.l1259
thanks again

 

[Tam Lin]

ORIGINAL: spic01
I then realised that the spoiler on my car was the closest i was going to get to the one used on the Le Mans cars back in the days...And for that reason its staying.

Up to a point..the GTR spoilers were made in glassfibre/plastic composite IIRC, so they look like the rubber item, but were deeper & a lot lighter.

But the rubber 944 item is still pretty good, and the aero is actually surprisingly effective in reducing Cd, if not lift: I don't think it's that effective at killing rear end lift unless you add an upper extension (a number of "modern" race 944 have this).

On the 924 Turbo, adding a smaller spoiler (as compared to no spoiler) reduced the Cd by .02, which results in a decent fuel saving, if you average it out at motorway speeds. And the 968 always had a worse Cd than the 944s. The front lights were blamed, but I wonder if the bridge spoiler also played a part.

 

[Peter Empson]

ORIGINAL: diabloam

Any links to pics (dont like the 924 lemans one) of 4 piece, bridge spoiler or van sweeden.

I think this link shows one, although I say if you're doing the job you may as well go with the Turbo S variant like what I have, innit (slipping into chav speak there []).

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: xenon
A fully-laden 747 8i is 439,985Kg with a wing surface area of 511m2. This means each square metre of wing must lift 861Kg. Each square inch therefore, lifts 0.55Kg. (one m2 = 1550 sq. inch).

So we have a baby who can lift half a kilogram of weight through a drinking straw. Not something you'd see everyday, I'll wager.

I love calculations like this!

In fairness to Scott, the cross-sectional area of a drinking straw is much less than a sq.inch. I reckon about 5mm diameter. So cross-sectional area is nearer 7.8x10^-5 m2. Which, at a wing loading of 861kg/m^2 gives a true suck of about 67g over the area of a straw.

Which is not far off being believable actually. (Anyone got a baby to try this out with?)


Oli.

 

[xenon]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

ORIGINAL: xenon
A fully-laden 747 8i is 439,985Kg with a wing surface area of 511m2. This means each square metre of wing must lift 861Kg. Each square inch therefore, lifts 0.55Kg. (one m2 = 1550 sq. inch).

So we have a baby who can lift half a kilogram of weight through a drinking straw. Not something you'd see everyday, I'll wager.

I love calculations like this!

In fairness to Scott, the cross-sectional area of a drinking straw is much less than a sq.inch. I reckon about 5mm diameter. So cross-sectional area is nearer 7.8x10^-5 m2. Which, at a wing loading of 861kg/m^2 gives a true suck of about 67g over the area of a straw.

Which is not far off being believable actually. (Anyone got a baby to try this out with?)

Oli.

[] True. But to visualise this the KitKat I have in front of me is 40g and I can't pick it up with a drinking straw. And I'm much bigger than a baby.

 

[Peter Empson]

ORIGINAL: xenon

[] True. But to visualise this the KitKat I have in front of me is 40g and I can't pick it up with a drinking straw. And I'm much bigger than a baby.

Stop playing with your food []

 

[John Sims]

IIRC from an Open University program I saw many years ago; for aerodynamic efficiency you need a sharp edge at the rear of an object to break the lamina air flow. It you don't get the air to break away from the surface it will continue around to the back of the object and create drag. This seems to make sense and you only have to consider how this has been accommodated into current performance and pseudo performance cars. It follows that the rubber spoiler does this.

I wouldn't under estimate the effect aerodynamics have on a car. Any easy demonstration is to drive the same car with and without a roof rack. You will soon appreciate why people don't store their roof racks on top of the car when they are not using them. Easier still, get someone to drive at 30 mph+ and put your hand out of the window. Flat and parallel with the ground it is easy to hold your hand there. At 90º to the ground it is a whole different ball game; and that is something no bigger than your hand.

The Alfa touring cars developed a cheat by selling their road cars with an extended rear wing (or rather put the parts in the boot so the road car could have an extended wing). They didn't do it for fun, it gave them an advantage.

I am glad the point was made with regard to the 747 wing (babies suck []). I further understand that an F1 car produces more down force than it's weight so could, in theory, drive along the ceiling (if anyone had a big enough room to maintain 180mph []) .

Noting all of the above aerodynamics can make a big difference. If it is done wrong it can be a big disadvantage. One assumes Porsche had a reasonable idea of what they were doing (bit of testing at Le Man perhaps?) Do you really think a man in a shed with some resin and a bit of GRP mat is going to do a better job?