Anyone converterd 944 to LPG
- Thread starter g.wass
- Start date
It costs less to run. Yes.
I do a lot of social miles per week mainly on roads where speed and power make no difference but running cost do. I also have 2 944's so can keep one for blasting away if ever I felt the need. I have a Porsche 944 for the shear pleasure of owning one of the best sports car ever made as opossed to racing some city kid in his teeny racer. No offence meant by my remarks.
Graham
I do a lot of social miles per week mainly on roads where speed and power make no difference but running cost do. I also have 2 944's so can keep one for blasting away if ever I felt the need. I have a Porsche 944 for the shear pleasure of owning one of the best sports car ever made as opossed to racing some city kid in his teeny racer. No offence meant by my remarks.
Graham
morris944s2john
New member
I would advise not using a 2nd hand system from a scrap car, especially if you lack LPG knowledge due to safety concerns. If I were to do this job, I would go to a qualified installer and get the car converted to LPG with a new kit. AFAIK, it is only possible/legal to install LPG into older carbuettor cars as an anateur mechanic. For fuel injected cars you really need to see a specialist installer.
Plus, the safety aspect!! I heard on Top Gear a comedian who was interviewed had his car engine blow up on the motorway because of a badly installed LPG system in his Rover 75.
Plus, the safety aspect!! I heard on Top Gear a comedian who was interviewed had his car engine blow up on the motorway because of a badly installed LPG system in his Rover 75.
vince944red
New member
I've done an LPG version without too much trouble ( on a renault megane)
I am preparing my 944 to convert soon because as a daily driver it clocks up a lot of miles (18,000 pa). Rule 1 is that the engine must be in pretty good condition to start with ( I've been plagued with a misfire I think I have at last fixed).
Do not listen to people who know nothing of LPG !!! there is a mindless blank by some people - petrol has just reached 120p a litre at my local station. Any good system lets you flip between petrol and LPG on the move.The power impact is minimal unless you are a boy racer.
LPG fitting is well in the DIY capabilities of most DIY mechanics the setup has to be done carefully though.
Problems are
1 The LPG tank - in 944 the best location is the spare wheel well - but a vertical tank is £450+ if you can find one so a cylinder in the back is a compromise ( behind rear seats)
2 Fitting tanks is not hard but there is in the end an insurance issue , best to chat up a local supplier to see if they will give you a certificate for a fee. Second hand tanks are a risk if they can't be approved.
3 Fitting the LPG parts generally - there is space on the 944 certainly the NA although you need a MAP sensor the 944 does not have - £20.
4 Its absolutely vital to fit the gas injectors as close to the intake manifold as possible, they are small but important. It can be done without removing the manifold but I would not do it that way again
5 A 6 cylinder kit might not like the 4 cylinder engine it depends how it was designed and the type
6 You need software to set it up if you can't do this don't start, comms link to a laptop as well
7 oh and you can't fit a removed kit without manufacturers instructions at least
If it wasn't for me agonising about where to put the tank I'd have converted my 944 already, I took the kit I fitted off the Megane I fitted it to when I sold it ( Cost 400£ without the tank IIRC) It took me 2 days to convert the megane I did, fairly relaxed days that is. Having done it once I know I could do it faster - its making up special brackets and rusty bolts that slow you down.
I am preparing my 944 to convert soon because as a daily driver it clocks up a lot of miles (18,000 pa). Rule 1 is that the engine must be in pretty good condition to start with ( I've been plagued with a misfire I think I have at last fixed).
Do not listen to people who know nothing of LPG !!! there is a mindless blank by some people - petrol has just reached 120p a litre at my local station. Any good system lets you flip between petrol and LPG on the move.The power impact is minimal unless you are a boy racer.
LPG fitting is well in the DIY capabilities of most DIY mechanics the setup has to be done carefully though.
Problems are
1 The LPG tank - in 944 the best location is the spare wheel well - but a vertical tank is £450+ if you can find one so a cylinder in the back is a compromise ( behind rear seats)
2 Fitting tanks is not hard but there is in the end an insurance issue , best to chat up a local supplier to see if they will give you a certificate for a fee. Second hand tanks are a risk if they can't be approved.
3 Fitting the LPG parts generally - there is space on the 944 certainly the NA although you need a MAP sensor the 944 does not have - £20.
4 Its absolutely vital to fit the gas injectors as close to the intake manifold as possible, they are small but important. It can be done without removing the manifold but I would not do it that way again
5 A 6 cylinder kit might not like the 4 cylinder engine it depends how it was designed and the type
6 You need software to set it up if you can't do this don't start, comms link to a laptop as well
7 oh and you can't fit a removed kit without manufacturers instructions at least
If it wasn't for me agonising about where to put the tank I'd have converted my 944 already, I took the kit I fitted off the Megane I fitted it to when I sold it ( Cost 400£ without the tank IIRC) It took me 2 days to convert the megane I did, fairly relaxed days that is. Having done it once I know I could do it faster - its making up special brackets and rusty bolts that slow you down.
944 man
Active member
For an every day car Id do it in a flash, if it was practical. My father used to have his own tank for a fleet of Jeeps, Range Rovers and several Jaguars, and Im enthusiastic about its benefits. I used to like filling up for 36ppl too... Tank location is a massive problem in a 944 though, as Vince has mentioned. Even an expensive toroidal vertical tank is far from ideal due to its location - in an accident itll be pinched against the transaxle; and a cylindrical tank will have to be of small capacity and itll still be in the way.
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Tref Willingham has converted one of his 944s, again a high-miles per year daily driver.
My question would be the legality of home conversion, what's the situation regarding getting it inspected before use, for instance? Also, when does the preferential tax rate on LPG run out? I can't see it staying cheap under any government in future. [8|]
My question would be the legality of home conversion, what's the situation regarding getting it inspected before use, for instance? Also, when does the preferential tax rate on LPG run out? I can't see it staying cheap under any government in future. [8|]
sawood12
New member
The preferential tax rate on LPG cars doesn't amount to anything more than a token gesture. It is only a handful of pounds currently so the only way you can recoup your installation costs is through the savings in fuel costs. Before I got the S Max I was considering getting a previous model Audi S6 Avant and converting to LPG, but with the cost savings taking many years to come, the hike in road tax for large capacity cars and the loss of boot space due to the LPG tank in there I just came to the conclusion it was not worth the effort. The spare tyre tanks are only 55ltrs (ish) and you can't use all that capacity so with a tank that small you'll be making alot of trips to the petrol station to fill it up (maybe 200 miles out of a full tank of LPG at the most) so there is an element of inconvenience there unless you go for a larger cylindrical tank. In a 944 they are heavy and high up in the boot of the car, take up space in the car and even though these things are pretty tough in the event of a crash in terms of rupture strength, you've still got a big heavy tank in the interior of the car which, if broke loose in the event of a crash, would do you some damage.
There was a lady with a gas kitted 944 at the Porscheshop meet we had a while ago. Her tank was a cylinder behind the rear seats, certainly took up lots of space and I recall a lot of extra wires and pipes in the engine bay, looked pretty complicated.
She bought the car, a white 2.5 N/A I thimk, already converted and was quite happy with it. It started on petrol and flipped to gas after a few (15?) seconds and would flip back automatically if the gas ran out.
Not sure I'd want to be in the same space as an LPG tank though.
Mike
She bought the car, a white 2.5 N/A I thimk, already converted and was quite happy with it. It started on petrol and flipped to gas after a few (15?) seconds and would flip back automatically if the gas ran out.
Not sure I'd want to be in the same space as an LPG tank though.
Mike
Thanks for all the replies. Its possible to do it. Cost saving fuel wise. Just space for tank is main problem. Ah well . The wife can sit with the tank on her knee.[
]
Actually it is practical info I now need on fitting it . There was an article I think on the old Forum or it may have been on the MR2 MK1 forum about converting a simple 4 cylinder injected engine using the Gas Burner type of system
Graham
]Actually it is practical info I now need on fitting it . There was an article I think on the old Forum or it may have been on the MR2 MK1 forum about converting a simple 4 cylinder injected engine using the Gas Burner type of system
Graham
morris944s2john
New member
I think that no-one on this forum wants to be partly responsible through their advice for you blowing yourself or your family up because of a mistake in the LPG installation. That is what can happen with a big cylinder of explosive gas in the confines of a car!! That is why I urge you to go and see an LPG specialist. To be honest £1500 is cheap if it means the difference between a safe install and a horrible accident!!
Yes, it is quite a bit of money and that is why LPG is much more common on big petrol engine 4x4's where the savings are recouped much sooner. The Porsche 944 can comfortably better 30mpg on a long run, so with this level of relative economy, is the cost of LPG justified?? We do not drive 15mpg gas guzzlers!
In addition to carefully considering the safety implications of a DIY install of a 2nd hand (could even be faulty) kit, with the added complications of fuel injection, I would advise you to enquire about the legality of self install of used parts of an LPG kit (designed for another vehicle) on a fuel injected car. After all, it is illegal and dangerous to work on the gas supply in your house, so why would you want to do this on your car?? LPG is very simmilar to natural gas used in home central heating and gas cookers.
In summary, either don't do it or get professional help.
Yes, it is quite a bit of money and that is why LPG is much more common on big petrol engine 4x4's where the savings are recouped much sooner. The Porsche 944 can comfortably better 30mpg on a long run, so with this level of relative economy, is the cost of LPG justified?? We do not drive 15mpg gas guzzlers!
In addition to carefully considering the safety implications of a DIY install of a 2nd hand (could even be faulty) kit, with the added complications of fuel injection, I would advise you to enquire about the legality of self install of used parts of an LPG kit (designed for another vehicle) on a fuel injected car. After all, it is illegal and dangerous to work on the gas supply in your house, so why would you want to do this on your car?? LPG is very simmilar to natural gas used in home central heating and gas cookers.
In summary, either don't do it or get professional help.
Fellow I know took his Jag to have a proffesional install. Never Saw his Jag for weeks the ran like bag of nails plus major issues all round and Jag reduced to sitting in the garage.
I have installed many a Gas system in all types of marine craft. Qualified in that area plus qualified as electrical engineer. diesel/petrol engineer. plus DTI qualified welder. Spent many many hours of training as Marine engineer. A Porsche 944 is simple compared with some of the equipment I have worked on. Plus can get it fully checked and passed when done. Just need the relative info.
Graham
I have installed many a Gas system in all types of marine craft. Qualified in that area plus qualified as electrical engineer. diesel/petrol engineer. plus DTI qualified welder. Spent many many hours of training as Marine engineer. A Porsche 944 is simple compared with some of the equipment I have worked on. Plus can get it fully checked and passed when done. Just need the relative info.
Graham
morris944s2john
New member
In that case, why do you need to ask us questions??[&:] Being that qualified and experienced and if the job is really that simple
you would know how to install the LPG system to a 944 far better than any of us.
Or if the install is being checked and certified, might I suggest that you ask the certification engineer where the tank should go before you install it?
you would know how to install the LPG system to a 944 far better than any of us.
Or if the install is being checked and certified, might I suggest that you ask the certification engineer where the tank should go before you install it?
John it seems that the guy's simply trying to find out if anyone else has done it, and more for info on how/where they mounted the eqpt. ? We all have knowledge to do stuff, but why struggle on our own if someone's been there before us and can give us some insight to potential problems we haven't foreseen - Give the guy a break ! If you can't help/don't want to help then fair enough, but there's no need to be funny about it !
Just my 2p worth, don't wanna rub anyone up the wrong way, but let's have constructive replies or just bite our tongues. We all have different ideas on what's the 'right' thing to do, and where our capabilities lie. That's for each of us to judge individually though................
Mike
Just my 2p worth, don't wanna rub anyone up the wrong way, but let's have constructive replies or just bite our tongues. We all have different ideas on what's the 'right' thing to do, and where our capabilities lie. That's for each of us to judge individually though................
Mike
Soprry I do not keep a reference manual of all parts required in my head. Being a qualified engineer gives me the skills but not the information. A Porsche 944 is a very simple car but thats part of its charm. I am not trying to beliitle the Porsche 944 just trying to find some info. I had the same problem on an American Porsche forum when seeking info about a mod for the Auto transmission drive plate. Expert on there said it was impossible what I intended to do. Mines been running 3 years with the mod . Nothing is impossible. But do need correct info
Regards Graham
PS Thanks Mike. You are spot on Cheers mate
Regards Graham
PS Thanks Mike. You are spot on Cheers mate
morris944s2john
New member
Mike, I'm not being "funny" about anything. I think you mis-read my post, so I apologise if anyone mis-understood what I said. This is an internet forum and it is said that 95% of communication is non- verbal so mis-understandings are easy to occur. For the record, I don't want to "rub anyone up the wrong way" as you said. That is not my intention here, yet I also don't want to see a horrible accident result from a hopeful DIYer. It was not my intention to annoy anyone, just alerting folk to the potential dangers. As for a constructive reply, well, concern for anothers safety is I would judge constructive and well intended.
I was at first concerned that a keen 944 enthusuast was going to end up blowing himself up throught lack of knowledge! Now it is apparent that the chap is an expert engineer in such things, hence the confusion. I used to take my cars to a local garage, which was also a qualified LPG installers. I did talk to the mechanic (one of the rare breed of very knowledgable "old boy" mechanics you can trust) about converting my cars to LPG. He told me that my classic carburettored cars were DIY able but not the 944 due to the fuel injection (needs test equipment). I decided against as my milage would not recoup the cost.
I will say so more on this. We could all do with giving each other a break from time to time. We already have moderators on this forum, so please don't misinterpret my posts and my intentions.
I was at first concerned that a keen 944 enthusuast was going to end up blowing himself up throught lack of knowledge! Now it is apparent that the chap is an expert engineer in such things, hence the confusion. I used to take my cars to a local garage, which was also a qualified LPG installers. I did talk to the mechanic (one of the rare breed of very knowledgable "old boy" mechanics you can trust) about converting my cars to LPG. He told me that my classic carburettored cars were DIY able but not the 944 due to the fuel injection (needs test equipment). I decided against as my milage would not recoup the cost.
I will say so more on this. We could all do with giving each other a break from time to time. We already have moderators on this forum, so please don't misinterpret my posts and my intentions.
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