ARB's
- Thread starter j16jrf
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Guest
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I believe that the Turbo ARB is the thickest that is available off the shelf. It's the same as the M030 item.I can't remember the precise diameter offhand but it's either 27.something or 30.something mm.
However, as an ARB is basically a bit of bent bar, it's easy enough to get one made to whatever spec you want.[
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However, as an ARB is basically a bit of bent bar, it's easy enough to get one made to whatever spec you want.[
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sawood12
New member
By the way i've seen that Essential Styling do little stiffening brackets to support the ARB tie bars which I've always thought look a bit flimsy and could easily buckle under load hence meaning the front ARB isn't working properly. I'm going to order some as it's a pretty cheap mod but just out of interest has anyone else fitted them?
Beaky had the stiffening brackets fitted in isolation ( I think Rick got them for me from Lindsey Racing) and they do make a difference. As you would expect, the front ARB's work much better.
While nice stiff suspension is great on the track it can make things a bit exciting on the road, particularly when it is wet, muddy, icy or a combination of all three. A stiff car may hold on for longer but will break loose far less progressively. Our old Freelander could never be considered stiff but could be driven on most roads (and mud) with great aplomb as it would slide progressively. Beaky has to be driven with far more respect as he will bite back with very little provocation.
IIRC it has been suggested that the 964RS was so stiff that it would throw you into the nearest ditch if you drove it on the road; but was like smelly stuff on a blanket when on the track.
So, in summary, being overly stiff isn't always a good thing.
While nice stiff suspension is great on the track it can make things a bit exciting on the road, particularly when it is wet, muddy, icy or a combination of all three. A stiff car may hold on for longer but will break loose far less progressively. Our old Freelander could never be considered stiff but could be driven on most roads (and mud) with great aplomb as it would slide progressively. Beaky has to be driven with far more respect as he will bite back with very little provocation.
IIRC it has been suggested that the 964RS was so stiff that it would throw you into the nearest ditch if you drove it on the road; but was like smelly stuff on a blanket when on the track.
So, in summary, being overly stiff isn't always a good thing.
sawood12
New member
Because my car is a daily runner but I want to enjoy it on the track on the few occations a year I will take it to a track i'm after the impossible compromise, but I agree that being overly stiff is not desirable on normal roads. I'm still waiting for a full M030 kit from my local breakers (currently being refurbed but very slowly) but am considering only using the front ARB, brakes and spindle assembly and keeping my std turbo suspension. I certainly don't want to lower the ride height any more. I am struggling to find slightly uprated shock absorbers for the non-M030 std turbo suspension though, having said that i'm sure that brand new standard shocks will be alot stiffer than the current 18yr/110k mile old shocks.
j16jrf
New member
i upgraded my shocks to Bilstein sports and must say they are a very good job and not overly harsh for every day use.
If i uprate the front ARB aswell as the rear surely this wont upset the oversteer/understeer balance of the car with one cancelling the other out? is that not the case?
Thanks sawood j16jrf@hotmail.com is my email
If i uprate the front ARB aswell as the rear surely this wont upset the oversteer/understeer balance of the car with one cancelling the other out? is that not the case?
Thanks sawood j16jrf@hotmail.com is my email
Ooohhh no! That would make the car very understeery. Very modern and safe (though how ploughing straight on into an accident is safer than not having an accident at all beats me), but not the most pleasant set up you could have.
Porsche played with many different ARB combinations (somewhere I posted a list). One can only assume that they knew what they were doing, so I would stick with their combinations, not make one up your self through trial and error.
sawood12
New member
Would it have that much of an effect? remember that the rear ARB on the non M030 turbos is the same as the one on the M030 turbo's so stiffening the ARB a little would'nt induce any more understeer than an M030 turbo - in fact less because the springs and dampers are more compliant - also M030 is a slightly lower ride height and therefore lower centre of gravity therefore requireing less stiff ARB's in the first place????? I think this all makes sense!
ORIGINAL: Fen
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A bit O/T but....
Ah yes, Fred the Freelander has gone to pastures new. He had been a stalwart Sims Transporter, Company Van, Tow Car, Off Road Competition Winner and many other things in his 6 years with us. He was coming up for another big belts service and needed new tyres, and sundry other bits and pieces fixing, which was going to cost us IRO £1500.
I'd not really seen anything that I wanted instead of Fred and didn't like the newer ones sufficiently more to get a latter model; so Fred was going to stay. However, at 8 years old, there was a nagging suspicion that further big bills could be just around the corner.
Any road up, my Dad bought himself an X Type and I was very taken with the car. 230+ bhp, 4 wheel drive, quiet and comfortable, but quick enough to raise a smile when required. I started looking at the Jag approved 2nd hand deals and Jasper replaced Fred as a result.
Jasper is a bog standard 3.0ltr manual Sport, in a serviceable and complimentary metallic blue grey -"serviceable" in that it doesn't look dirty when it is and doesn't need drying when you wash it [
]. While I have said he is bog standard, I have now acquired a replacement Jaguar mesh grill for him, and have a growing list of further presents, though nothing that should impact on the performance (or insurance).Power delivery is completely different to the 951 with the Ford (I mean Jaguar) V6 producing great shed loads of torque from little more than tick over. I was most insistent that I had a manual but in all honesty the torque characteristics almost make it a waste of time (even if it is .5 secs quicker to 60). Things seem to plateau at 2.5-3k when nothing more seems to happen until you get to about 5k when it gets all exciting again up to the red line. Like I said, completely unlike the Turbo when nothing happens to 3k then all hell breaks loose and continues at a pace to where it runs out of breath.
I kept saying that I was sick of Beaky and going to get an ST220 Mondeo, and I guess I did (with a Jag body kit). Fortunately for Beaky, he is still feels much quicker, and more visceral, so he will be staying at least for the foreseeable future.
Well if the rear ARB is the same as the one you have currently there is obviously no point in changing it, assuming that the arm lengths are the same etc.
ARB's do make a big difference in front and rear balance, hence my comments on trying to keep a consistent, proven, set.
Ride height will change the suspension geometry and may not always be a positive move. Porche will have designed the suspension to work within a certain band of travel, maintaining camber and caster values within acceptable levels at expected extents of suspension travel. If you lower the suspension (with the same spring rates) the suspension will use a different band of travel which may be outside of design tolerances - to redress this suspension pick up points may need to be relocated. With stiffer springs the suspension travel is reduced and may then stay within the lower limits.
I hope the above makes some sort of sense but helps to demonstrate that suspension is complicated and, as such, is best left to the experts.
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