Are Lux values dropping?

[pauljmcnulty]

Damn - someone has a Minor and a 944. Blows my argument.....

I'd still stand by the fact that a good Lux, £3k tops, would be a pretty good long-term prospect compared to most other £3k classic cars.

I'm going to disagree over the rust though. Half the problem is that people assume their galvanised car is rot-proof, and don't check or repair small problems as they arise. Is there a 20-year-old car that doesn't corrode worse than a 944? I can't think of one. Don't forget that even plastic cars have metal chassis parts that go - think Scimitar or TVR - and the cost of fully aluminium cars has yet to be appreciated. Repair to the tub on an Elise, or a new Aston? Possibly higher than repairs to a 944...[8|]

Wouldn't it be nice if someone made new shells, the way they do for an MG!

 

[tref]

To a degree I suspect the 944 is a victim of it's own longevity... there are plenty of reasonably solid ones around, that there is certainly no market for manufacturing new shells a-la MGBs.
I suspect that I am probably one of the first that has gone any-where near a ground-up rebuild of a 924, because if you really want a nice car, you can go out and buy one cheaper than you can ever restore it. Most people involved in Porsches know this, and those that don't, buy something cheap, and usually sell it on again in 6 months anyway...

I whole-heartedly agree with the theory that the early 944 will attain a cult status a-la 914... I would happily exchange my S2 for a black early dash car with air...but... I cannot afford another garage queen, so I'll drive what-ever happens to be cheap and reliable... and on a Sunday I would rather drive the Turbo than a lux.

Prices are dropping across the whole range, and so is the quality (in general)... just when you think values have bottomed out, they appear to drop some more...

 

[morris944s2john]

Paul, not quite blown your argument [] LOL, I do agree - some of those cars you mentioned are not very good. Beetles and Mini's I do like having driven both. They are not Porsches obviously but excellent groundbreaking cars in their day and suitable as daily drivers even now (along with the Minor).

However, I would absolutely agree, when like is compared to like, i.e 2+2 coupe a 944, even an early lux- is far superior to a Capri or Scimitar. I'd rather have a 924 than either of those. Considering the 944 is cheap now, I'm surprised the classic motoring press has not latched onto the '44 as the next "bargain upcoming classic", but they they are usually full of $%^& anyway!

Still, I'm waiting for the day when my Moggy Traveller is worth the same as my 944S2[&o][8|]

 

[tref]

ORIGINAL: morris944s2john

Considering the 944 is cheap now, I'm surprised the classic motoring press has not latched onto the '44 as the next "bargain upcoming classic", but they they are usually full of $%^& anyway!

Still, I'm waiting for the day when my Moggy Traveller is worth the same as my 944S2[&o][8|]

Ah, but you're waiting for the price of the Moggy to go up, it'll be quicker if you wait for the price of the S2 to come down!

The 944 may be cheap to buy, but it isn't really cheap to run. we have probably all become acustomed to the prices - I didn't really think about paying £230 for a new radiator, and I suppose I could have bought a second-hand one cheaper, but even so, it isn't the "£50 for a brand new one" that most people expect a radiator to be... I only realised this when I made some-one choke and fall over at my recent radiator woes... don't even mention waterpumps and belts if you have to get a garage to do it...
Most of the "Classic Crowd" treat their cars as a hobby, and their hobby budget doesn't run to Porsche repair prices... the work is more involved than with with most other cars, even though with practise it becomes second nature; it will put off an awful lot of potential owners, and the magazines.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

The 944 may be cheap to buy, but it isn't really cheap to run. we have probably all become acustomed to the prices - I didn't really think about paying £230 for a new radiator,

But,to be fair, most of the parts we find expensive are on their first replacement in 20 years??

 

[pauljmcnulty]

I'm surprised the classic motoring press has not latched onto the '44 as the next "bargain upcoming classic", but they they are usually full of $%^& anyway!

Reason I bought a 944? After thinking about it for 20 years I saw the headline in one of the classic mags:

"The best £5k you'll ever spend"

I don't think we're struggling to convince the people with half a brain. It's trying to convert the punter with a few quid and the desire to own both a piece of history and a real driver's car that a decent 944, combined with the help of the various Clubs, forums and enthusiasts, is a real proposition.

 

[Paul Fraser]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
I'm sure there's no shortage of kids who think £600 for a 944 is a good deal of car to impress the estate with....[]

I think you have hit on part of the problem. Anyone less than 30 and without another car will pay more than the £150-200 that I pay to insure the car. Are there many under-30 owners on here and what does their insurance cost?
By the time you get to over 30 I suspect the difference between £2-2.5k (Lux) and £4-4.5k (S2, maybe turbo) for a weekend car isn't so material (no offence to those who are skint at the moment ).
PS You'll be lucky to get anything viable for £600, and I'd put money on it failing the next MOT it came to. The last two I bought (unwisely it has to be said, at £1400 & 1200) have required shocks/discs/pads, I've refurbed the front/rear and front calipers, had the sills done on one, and they still have stuff wrong. Have we mentioned the leaking metal fuel tanks on the pre-86 cars so far (I have two out of two with this)?
PPS I'd maybe modify my opinion above to day there isn't a good market anymore for the pre-oval dash cars.

 

[metric_thumbs]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

Values are dropping, particularly for Luxes. Luxi? [8|]

Lucii

 

[metric_thumbs]

I think it is a matter of perception
Unfortunately a Porsche with the right refrigerant, weight distribution and some boot space is not seen as a Porsche by most of the unwashed, and so, there is no mass of newly acquired disposable incomed people with a desire to buy, as there is for those cars with a lump of whirling metal hanging out the back. Thus prices will always be weak.
Even those you would think in the know make comments about cars with VW LT engines in them and bite their thumb (bit Shakespearean there). Those of you who have the unalloyed delight in reading some of my posts will know I mess about with fast VW Beetles and even within that circle 924/44/68s are seen as far inferior to something "" anything "" air cooled. They all aspire to a 356 or 911 and most have no real detailed idea what.
So as the pool of cars diminishes and the pool of people who appreciate them for what they are also diminishes, the value will drop. Porsche will not "˜big them up' as it does not fit into their image.

Hang onto them and history will decide.

 

[metric_thumbs]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

Remember, people still lust after Morris Minors, Stags, MGBs, Beetles, Heralds, Minis, and a host of other cars that really are pretty horrible as a car and certainly no less expensive to run.

Nope - the availability of parts and panels for these cars is good - and probably better than for the 944, because peversely they do rust - there a bigger market for any panel that fixes a known rot spot. And I do dispute the 'they are horrible' bit.
I am not a big fan of British iron (owned too many) but they hav etheir interests. Big Healey (mine was a MKIIa) on a summers night time - beats my 937 any time)

 

[Jonny B]

I have a beetle and a 944s, generally, for cheap parts (repro metal) for the beetle are v poor quality. And only last a few yrs before rust sets in again despite ongoing waxoiling /maintenance. And i try to refurb everything to last for ever, stainless bolts whereever i can etc. But a refurb every few yrs is inevitable.

Im 27, i bought my 944s for less than 3k, pay less than 500 fully comp as my primery car despite a far from perfect licence.

The porsche build quility is an absolute joy to work with and significantly better lasting than anything else ive worked on that old. Yes im a tad carless and i'll throw what little cash i have at my car but its only failings have been a balljoint and the dreaded fuel relay. The rest of the money ive spent is through choice/ decent maintenance. Par for the course for being a classic car enthusiast. But when i do something, replace a part I see the quality and easily expect to get a signifiantly greater life expectancy than any other car thats comparable.

In total ive probably spent 5-5.5k for 18 months road use including parts, insurance, tax, mot's, she'll get a birthday in a yr but what the hell. And it may throw its belt or chain or break some teeth next week but thats old cars for you.
My mates with 10k beamers, nissans etc depreciating by the second who want to borrow my motor all the time. I'm sure not wanting to borrow theirs.

I enjoy my car, on and off the road, and even if i spent a fortune on it, put in a lot of hours work and made it mint condition over the next ten years, it will never resell for over 5k. Thats what I except.
JB

 

[Tam Lin]

ORIGINAL: metric_thumbs

I think it is a matter of perception
..is not seen as a Porsche by most of the unwashed, and so, there is no mass of newly acquired disposable incomed people with a desire to buy, as there is for those cars with a lump of whirling metal hanging out the back...They all aspire to a 356 or 911 and most have no real detailed idea what.

Hang onto them and history will decide.

Mostly agree, even though I am even lower down the food chain than the 944LUXers, with an 924S. I think the one glimmer of hope is the track day community, who have gently switched on to the fact that a 944 is excellent fun, at a price you'd struggle to build anything else for. Bit like rallying and old MK2 Escorts, I think these things will increase in value due to supply and demand, and I find it is now rare that I go to a trackday without seeing another 924/944/968 on the day. Bit like TVRs five years ago (RIP).

The one thing I find mystifying is why Porsche rust prevention is so phenomenally expensive. About 5 years ago I had a 3.2 1987 Carrera, and kidney bowls and respray were nearly £6k. I hate rust, so I've spent nearly £5k on the 924S, for goodness sake. next time I go to a bodyshop I will put a VW badge on the front of the nose, and pretend it really is a Scirocco..

 

[cococola]

At the end of the day its what ever floats your boat....what would I get for my near spotless 944 about £2000 if I was lucky although I wouldnt sell it for that as its worth more to me to keep.
I enjoy the 944 everytime I use it (not every day)and if I was to replace it for similar valued vehicles .....what would I get with as much enjoyment[8|]
Definately a car to sell in the summer if you have to in order to get more money.

 

[Neil Haughey]

ORIGINAL: Tam Lin

I think the one glimmer of hope is the track day community, who have gently switched on to the fact that a 944 is excellent fun, at a price you'd struggle to build anything else for. Bit like rallying and old MK2 Escorts, I think these things will increase in value due to supply and demand, and I find it is now rare that I go to a trackday without seeing another 924/944/968 on the day. Bit like TVRs five years ago (RIP).

I have been thinking this for the past couple of years. In fact when I bought the S2 almost 7 years ago I could have got an SC but decided that a 44 would one day be more suitable for track use. Basically I have a problem with any car that is not controllable on and over its limits hence why the 911 has always had a limited appeal for me. The shear joy of feeling your car shift between understeer to a slight neutral slide to a tad of oversteer all in the same corner is total magic. I managed to get this feeling over and over again when our region got the track at Haynes one Sunday. Tref remembers me talking to a spectator in a Pompey shirt (I hope). He was so taken by seeing me slide the S2 around that he said he plans to get a 44 as his next sportscar because it looks brilliant fun to hoon around a track.

I used to go out in my mini in the rain years ago because it was incredible fun to drift the thing into corners, I didn't think any car would give such easilly accesible thrills until I started getting the 44 track side.

 

[colinbythesea]

I sold my 83 944 a few weeks ago on ebay there was just not the interest elsewhere. It was in lovely condition with new belts, clutch, engine mounts and much TLC whilst in my ownership. It had a verifiable 120,000 miles with all MOTs service history and original handbook. On ebay it made £1750 which I was reasonably pleased about.

The plan is to get a turbo next summer but I have already been looking at a more normal 944 until then and there are plenty around. However, most are basket cases and in worse condition than mine was. I did find a lovely 944S with genuine mileage and a pile of receipts for all the expensive bits. It had air con and design 90 wheels. The dealer only wanted £2,500. I would have gone for it but he seemed very dodgy meeting at a petrol station. I know with the receipts and a long term previous owner I could have investigated further but I just didn't like the guy selling it. It was a lot of car for the money, I would have expected to pay £3,500 for such a car.

I have noticed the same cars coming up for sale everywhere, Pistonheads, Autotrader and eBay. So it is a buyers market and I am sure this will affect prices. With the price of newer Porsches coming down this has a knock on effect down the line too.

Anyway I haven't even had a call for a 2 year old low mileage Corsa 1 litre I am trying to sell for a very reasonable price so things are hardly boyant.

 

[Suffolk944]

Hmm anyone got a handle on what a realistic price for a turbo is at present, especially a *cough* early *cough* example ?

 

[Paul Fraser]

Why, are you selling yours? Is it the silver one in the photo? Any pics?