Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPCs!

[flat6]

Yep. Well, 10hp difference is next to nothing then the Spyder is 25kg lighter, so call that even. GT4 has more sophisticated, adjustable suspension - the conditions will dictate when that comes to the fore on any particular set-up of it. GT4 has more aero downforce. At what speed does that provide a downforce advantage as opposed to a drag deficit.

It says 7 seconds difference around the Nurburgring. All things considered, how much of that is down to the tyres.

For me the conclusion is, you can't go wrong with either and you need to take them to the track to split them and if you're more inclined towards track performance why not pick the GT4. If you're more inclined to get your kicks on the road pick either. If you want and open top pick the Spyder.

And it goes without saying, if you want a Spyder pick the Spyder. If you want a Boxster (i.e. standard body shape and power hood) pick the Boxster!

 

[flat6]

New page new pic. One thing i've always wondered... Porsche typically talk about how front and rear aero packages are designed to work together and so one shouldn't be added without the other. So how does the front aero design work optimally for both the Spyder & GT4 when their rears are very different. Not saying it's impossible, but at speed the characteristics generated must be slightly different. But then you've got different ride heights etc to consider, so that will effect how much downforce you get from it on each car, with the Spyder gaining less from it, but then has less at the rear, so balances out. Or maybe it just looks good but the downforce effect is minimal so you can put it on any 981 without needing to think about a rear end complement.

 

[Sandy59]

Don't forget the GT4 has a much deeper front lip on the splitter :

[attachment=GT4.jpg]

 

[flat6]

Ah OK. Good point.

 

[kitchens]

Yes it sticks out quite a bit more than the Spyder one and it's 50 lower at the front end over the 981 Spyder which in turn is 40 lower than the 987 Spyder,so watch out for those speed bumps .

Was at Knockhill Race Circuit to day with PCGB and there where 7 GT4 on track 3 Yellow. 1 Black. 1 Red .1 White .1 Silver. and one lonely Red Spyder not on track with only 120 miles no way was it going any way near a track now or in the future

 

[daro911]

New page new pic. One thing i've always wondered... Porsche typically talk about how front and rear aero packages are designed to work together and so one shouldn't be added without the other.

flat6 this guy seems to have played with front aero and BIG alloys with tyres to suit

 

[spyderman77]

Just got back from a great drive around the North Norfolk Coast road in my 987 Guards Red Spyder, got up to 25 degrees here today so the perfect day for it. I know a lot of you guys have owned the 987 Spyders and moved on to the 981's but remember the buzz you got when you first owned your 987's well that is me at the moment , what a car!! Cheers to you all and Happy Spydering whichever model you are behind the wheel of.

 

[Sandy59]

I well remember picking up my 987 Spyder from 911 Virgin, top experience and nice weather that day for the roof off, a great start.

Had to drive back to Scotland a few days later in torrential rain though, somehow I still really enjoyed the drive, and amazed it was totally leak free.

 

[Spyderman1970]

Been out in my 987 today,what a totally brilliant car,prefer it to my GT3 tbh.

 

[MrDemon]

Nice article for our Mr Demon or any other potential Spyder owners to ponder ;-)

[link=http://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/237/articles/rapid-arachnid#.Vyz4UdR4WK1]http://www.excellence-mag...-arachnid#.Vyz4UdR4WK1[/link]

I always doubt people drive these cars ! To quote a passive set up car

Sport Plus may be a bit too bumpy for some drivers on rougher stretches of road, but Normal mode again produces a compliant ride over uneven sections.

what a load of horse shit, as some other review has also stated this one might think it's a copy and paste review, but clearly bullshit.

not often I say horse shit and bull shit in one line ;-)

 

[MrDemon]

Been out in my 987 today,what a totally brilliant car,prefer it to my GT3 tbh.

I ran both for a while and sold my Gt3 , enough said ;-)

no new porker can match the 987.2 Spyer, GT4 inc.

thats why walter still owns his.

Although when asked, he did also say the GT4 was in his top 3

But he talks about the drive, others here talk about the looks, or how rare it is, or how new it is, or how much money they will make, now that might be their turn on and nothing wrong with that.

But if you like driving and I really mean like driving, none of at matters, you want a car which has that connection and drives as one with you, the 997.2 spyder does that very well indeed.

no new porker has come close bar the R ( hence why I bought one back) out of 66 cars owned the R is the only car I have bought twice !

 

[Sandy59]

And that would all be IYO of course, and without having driven the new Spyder ?? []

 

[daro911]

Review from an "actual owner" across the pond:-



I also have a sapphire blue Spyder I just picked up Saturday, 4/30 from Porsche of Huntington here in Long Island. Same wheels as you! I wrapped the car in Xpel on Sunday, 4/24 and drove 2452 miles to Tail of the Dragon in Tennessee. Shenandoah Valley, Blue Ridge Parkway, and Pigsah national forest were a few excursions along the way.



I traded in a 2014 C4S with 24,000+ on the odometer, stick and w/powerkit for this Spyder! I have had several track days with the C4S at Pocono and Monticello. Loved the car, but one test drive with the Spyder and it was time to give the Boxster a go!



Observations:



a.) The six speed in the Boxster is light years ahead of the 911 seven speed.

b.) The Boxster is more nimble with quicker steering than the 911.

c.) The 0 - 60 is slightly quicker in the Boxster at 3.95 vs 4.1 for the 911 (Aim Solo data logger, 10 run average).

d.) The 1/4 mile is VERY close at 12.22 & 12.27 each.

e.) Over 120, the race goes to the 911 powerkit, it is clearly faster. I hit 157 with the Spyder (I can't say where) and 163 with my 911 at Pocono. (My observations on many 150+ runs give the 911 powerkit a decisive advantage).

f.) I am not as comfortable (yet) putting the Spyder thru the corners as I am with the 911, I have a feeling it will be close. I will be at Pocono in June.

g.) The 911 is a little more comfortable for long distances. Quieter and slightly softer riding. Probably due to PASM.

h.) My 911 sounded great above 5000 rpms, the Spyder sounds better!

i.) The brakes cut the Spyders speed considerably faster than the same calipers do in the 911.

j.) 120mph+ wind noise in the Spyder with top up is marginal (not bad), 911 coupe is a no issue.

k.) 911 felt slightly more stable at speed than the Spyder (probably due to Michelin Sport Cups vs Pirelli).

l.) The Spyder looks beautiful, my 991 GT Silver 911 C4S with sport techno's and sport design pkg was well... VERY nice!

All in all a nice change from one great car to another great car! Both cars have their virtues

 

[Spyderman1970]

It seems everyone just bangs on about that the 981 is faster.

Not really noticed the 987 lacking tbh,it's how it behaves on A and B roads that I'm impressed with.

 

[flat6]

Nice article for our Mr Demon or any other potential Spyder owners to ponder ;-)

[link=http://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/237/articles/rapid-arachnid#.Vyz4UdR4WK1]http://www.excellence-mag...-arachnid#.Vyz4UdR4WK1[/link]

I always doubt people drive these cars ! To quote a passive set up car

Sport Plus may be a bit too bumpy for some drivers on rougher stretches of road, but Normal mode again produces a compliant ride over uneven sections.

...others here talk about the looks, or how rare it is, or how new it is...

Unfortunately it does happen, reviews that are clearly a desk exercise. That's why I only skim them for the facts and figures data they've collected & use my own imagination on how they might drive if I haven't had a chance to drive them.

I've bought a car without a test drive of the model before. I like driving but I like trying to extract the best from the car I have chosen. The 987 Spyder as you say is one of the best driver's cars. I test drove one and the type of test drive route the saleman typically takes you on, the car did nothing for me. But I bought one anyway the following year because of how I expected it should drive compared to my Cayman S and it did live up to expectations.

I don't think people are buying a 981 Spyder purely off looks etc. But then again, new car buyers have to weigh up a lot of things and they're the ones that have the guts to dive in cold a pave the way for used car buyers a few years later, so in some ways they do buy from a viewpoint of liking the car over, say driving the car vs driving a 987. But we have to remember that they don't make 987 Spyders any more and when someone wants to buy a new car, they have to embrace the new model or stick with the old one. There's lots of great driver's cars out there but if you want to upgrade newer you have choose which is highest priority on your list (how your current car drives or wanting to upgrade newer) & stick or twist.

I actually don't see the 987 Spyder and 981 Spyder as alternatives. They're produced to different objectives. And if you really like driving, it depends 'how' you really like driving. There are cars that are more driver's car than even the 987 Spyder. Depends what you're trying to extract from the car. There's people who bought a GT3 for the road and don't enjoy it as much as something where the driver's fun is a bit more accessible by being less extreme. Could never say that about the 987 though. It's very accessible. What I would say though is that i'd be interested to drive the 981 Spyder back to back with the 987 Spyder, **but needing a decent amount of time to familiarise myself. When I first drove a 981S I thought the less feedback the less I could drive it like the Spyder. But you adapt. Just like how some of the best racing cars are hard to drive but are quick, so the racing driver has to adapt.

I expect something like a 718 may be more 'disconnected' the more tech is introduced between the road surface and the steering wheel, **but what you can do with the capabilites of the car will be more than you can do with a 987 or 981, but if the driver can't adapt from needing the feedback he's used to in the 987 then he'll struggle to move on.

I no longer drive cars from feedback and balance etc because it pre-programmes me to what I think I need to get from the car. I just get in and learn the car's characteristics and push the car. Even my daily driver, I used to drive it in a way I thought it should be driven compared to my Porsche but actually there's more to it than i'd assumed. If I did buy a 981 I know it'd be different than the 987 but i'd be focusing on what it can let me do that the 987 couldn't and trying move forwards as a driver of that new car.

I think it comes down to what makes a car easier to drive for one particular driver vs another. They might actually think that the car they prefer is harder to drive and therefore 'more rewarding' but actually the car is easier because it provides the characteristics they are most familiar with. Take for example the feedback argument. The 987 Spyder's steering gives more feedback. So for a driver that thrives on feedback, it's easier to drive. Same with mid-engined balance vs rear engined balance. One is easier than the other. It all translates to 'more rewarding' if it provides a characteristic that you thrive on. Same with what AWD vs RWD does to your steering. You can either detest it or work with it. Turbocharged 4 cylinder engines is the next thing that will keep some people buying old cars and some people unlocking a new way. I read someone say that it will take a whole new way to drive the turbo cars. They're not of the erratic on-off boost nature of turbos of decades ago. Again its pre-programming.

I've been away from the forum for a bit but sometimes it's like i've never been away. Reality moves a lot slower than the tech. The 981(not Spyder) took so long to be accepted over the 987 that it's only now there's a GTS, GT4 and Spyder model towards the end of it's life that there's developed a love for it now that we're staring in the face of the 4 pot turbocharged blasphemy that is the 718 and the 987 is still current for many. I think if the registers were separated like the 911 models it would be a little clearer who wants to contribute what to what. E.g. you don't get posts about the 964 in the 991 section. I think all are valid points on here and yes the 987 Spyder does trump all newcomers in some ways and I think new car buyers will always get a bit of a p*** on their parade because we're all talking at cross purposes. But there is value and fun in 987 vs 981 vs 718 discussions so don't change, it's the structure of the Boxster register that we have in that its not broken out like 911s, but remember to take from it that there's a really mixed bag being mashed together on here.

 

[MrDemon]

If you like a car just say you like it, it's that simple, don't go posting reviews on how great the cars are as I will rip them apart.

i ripped the pec GT4 apart but every one else loved it, I,ll rip a cringe 981 spyder review apart ESP the last few posted as they are laughable.

I want people to enjoy the car they own and be happy with the choice.

if one has to post up reviews to back up why they bought it, it's a bad state of affairs.

post your own reviews and just be honest, no car is perfect I talk very open about my GT4.

i love it for being new and rare and has curb value, I,ll admit to it, but I,ll still say it has long gears and eps and Ptv and understeers a like a pig out the box when pushed.

i spent £8k on my 987.2 Spyder To fix the things I did not like.

it will prob lap faster then a oem 981, it sounds better, etc etc, so please don't say "I bought a 981 because it's faster or sounds better because for a few £ the 987.2 can be all that rather than spend £40k to change into a new car.

Porsche make great cars, they are not as focused these days but that's the way things are going.

it's great buying a new hard get rare car, but just say that don't make poor excuses for the cars you buy !

i re-bought an R because of the feel, it's def a sweet spot for me, I love it.

yes it's slower than my GT4, noisier inside, less comfort, etc etc but I like it more.

no one can slate me for me saying , I like my R more than my GT4 because it's just me saying I like it more, I don't even have to give reasons, just "I like it more"

i so wanted a 981 Boxster S as a daily car I don,t like it as much, I don't want to drive round it's issues or enjoy it for what it is, I like the R more so that's what I bought again.

 

[MrDemon]

It seems everyone just bangs on about that the 981 is faster.

Not really noticed the 987 lacking tbh,it's how it behaves on A and B roads that I'm impressed with.

People have to back up the reasons they bought the car and spent £40k to swap into one.

rather than just say "I like it more". People have to say it's faster when really that has no baring at all.

 

[flat6]

I think we're all in agreement then

I don't think the majority are upgrading to a 981 spyder because its faster. I certainly wouldn't upgrade to a newer car just to go faster. I've actually gone much older to go much faster. You did put the question to the forum about the attributes of the 718 what that means for the 981 Spyder... But it's not a Spyder even if its faster or has other upgrades inside and out.

I think most people who made their choice and managed to secure a 981 Spyder had to do so long before these road reviews came out.

I don't think many if any are slating you for liking your R more than your GT4.

Spot on that driving the car yourself and coming up with your own like or dislike is better than going off a magazine or forum opinion.

We all look at reviews and pick out pertinent points, pick sense from nonsense etc etc. whether that reviewer be some unknown from a mag, Chris Harris or Walter Röhrl.

So it's all good.

As I say, someone buying a brand new car because Porsche's marketing makes them want one and they can't yet drive it, or someone buying an older car because they've had one before, it's really different topics all mashed together. It's going to get even more convoluted when the first 718 Boxster owner hits the road and some happy owner wants to share their views on here. They'll say they're having a great time and someone will say no they're not because it has four cylinders and a turbocharger and doesn't steer as well as their old classic. When the 981 just came out I did some test drives on here and compared it to the Spyder as the current benchmark. But when people started to slate the 981 I said we're doing a comparison just to compare the Spyder to what's coming out, but we're not comparing apples with apples. I stopped doing the reviews because it became less of interest to me as the 981 was now the current car and that was that, even though there was no 981 Spyder yet. The 987 is the past and deserves its own register. It is that good. But in years to come, trying to talk about the 987 when the 718 gen 2 Spyder is hitting the streets will be like trying to talk about a 986 on here now. Some guys will be talking about buying the new car without even seeing one and others will be talking about how it was all better before. It's only natural.

 

[Nicks]

People have to back up the reasons they bought the car and spent £40k to swap into one.

rather than just say "I like it more". People have to say it's faster when really that has no baring at all.

There is never a perfect car and a Macan could be perfect for 95% of the time.

I don’t justify going from a….. Cabriolet to a coupe 911 to a GT4 PDK to manual.

I am only interested in what appeals to me in the year that I fancy a change and will consider nearly every car, new and old. The ideal would be to have six different cars to hand for a variety of jobs. I ordered a GT4 knowing how good the R was and I’m pleased to say the GT4 does move the driving pleasure up in a very good way and “I like it more”. Nick

 

[TheAnimal]

Out of interest, anyone know what the retail price for this would have been ?

Circa £68k OTR

More like 70k on the road.