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Are we really the poor relations II.....?

The point about waving at, or flashing, other Porsches sums it up for me. Why do we expect every owner of a Porsche to be a Porsche enthusiast? Most of them would assume you were pointing out they had a fault, not giving some sort of Masonic handshake!

Porsche is now, unkindly but realistically, the division of VW who make up-market 4x4s for the emerging markets. Whilst we see them as making exceptional sports cars in the UK, that's becoming less what the rest of the world perceives.

Even in the UK, many buyers of cheap Boxsters and 996s aren't enthusiasts. Most buyers of new cars aren't interested in the tractors or sportmatics, and wouldn't know a 2.7 RS from their own rs.

Do other clubs get this sort of thread? Would the VW Club GB have a post complaining that "I flashed a 1997 Polo today, and he ignored my immaculate early 1953 Beetle"? Or the Ford Club GB seeing "I was in my Mk1 Mexico today at South Mimms Services, and three owners of fleet Mondeos completely blanked me"?

I only flash or wave at 944s, 68s and 24s. Even then, they probably think i'm mad as I'm in a van most of the time....[&:]
 

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
Do other clubs get this sort of thread? Would the VW Club GB have a post complaining that "I flashed a 1997 Polo today, and he ignored my immaculate early 1953 Beetle"? Or the Ford Club GB seeing "I was in my Mk1 Mexico today at South Mimms Services, and three owners of fleet Mondeos completely blanked me"?
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Whilst in general your point is correct, Paul, in this specific case it doesn't apply and falls wide of the mark. Do bear in mind that Pete is describing an interaction (or lack thereof to be more precise) between two groups of supposed Porsche enthusiasts on the way to the same Porsche specific show. Under those circumstances it is reasonable to assume there would be some sort of marque camaraderie and to be surprised when there was none evidenced.

The reason for the pointed blanking is debatable, the fact that it happened isn't. It is deeply sad that it did.
 
I think if I had been driving in a closely spaced group of cars, trying to find the exit of a service car park (which are often confusing), I would also be more intent on driving and less on smiling and waving myself.
 

ORIGINAL: John Sims

I think if I had been driving in a closely spaced group of cars, trying to find the exit of a service car park (which are often confusing), I would also be more intent on driving and less on smiling and waving myself.
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If you had been there and seen the circumstances, you would be aware that this point is also not relevant.
 
ORIGINAL: supersport


ORIGINAL: colin944

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There's always an idiot in every group and it sounds like you found them.When I was at Le Mans in the PCGB camp site I was parked between 2 997 turbo's.There were loads of 911's and other modern and old porsches and more people stopped and took photo's and asked about my car than any of the others around.I got compliments all weekend and loads of comments about how people used to have a 944 and now they wish they'd never sold it. I think as our cars become rarer and rarer then we will get more and more attention from other Porsche owners. There was 270 cars in the camp site and only 3 of them were 944's ( my S2 a white S2 and a red 2.5 lux). In fact every time we stopped on the way down or back we got nothing but admiring looks and positive comments from all sorts of people in all sorts of cars (astons,bentleys,ferrari's etc). So I don't feel we are the poor relations I think the idiots who don't know what a 944 is are the poor relations.
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I was parked 3 cars further along from you behind the red turbo. I thought that there would have been more 944s on site. I stopped and ogled a couple of times, mainly after it was a little cleaner.
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I must admit to having a little ogle at your Turbo a couple of times over the weekend.The rain on Saturday was a bit of a blessing and let me get all the dust of the car.My friend who was with me is in the market for a 911 of some sort so it was an ideal opportunity to look at loads of different cars all together. He started the weekend thinking about a 997 gen 2 and is now thinking along the lines of a 996 turbo or a 996 C4s .He really liked John's 993 c4s but needs a daily driver also Johns car is not for sale.
 
Well, at bl00dy last and, about time too [8|]! Thank you for your support Glenn in at least indicating that it was not just in my
head [;)]. It matters not any more but, thanks anyway mate [:)]. I made my point and, stuck to my guns with NO insult meant
to anyone on here [:)].
Mc Nutters or, should we call you Buster Blood vessel [8|]. You ought to calm down mate or you'll be heading for a Corona [:D]!
 
Paul, I think you have to agree that Glenn makes a very good point, I certainly agree with his remarks, and it is indeed sad.
George
944t
 
Whilst in general your point is correct, Paul, in this specific case it doesn't apply and falls wide of the mark. Do bear in mind that Pete is describing an interaction (or lack thereof to be more precise) between two groups of supposed Porsche enthusiasts on the way to the same Porsche specific show.
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Glenn, I think this was on the way to the Tipec show?

Not being funny, but are they having the same conversation on Tipec's forum, where the culprits might be reading it? This is the PCGB forum!

I'm happy to promote the Tipec national event, and Sean asked me to do so, but it's a bit bizarre if two groups of Tipec members on the way to a Tipec show are being discussed on the PCGB forum.....[8|]

Maybe Tipec enthusiasts are less welcoming than PCGB to the 944s? Of course not, that was a deliberate comment designed to show how we are getting this out of proportion. I'd be an idiot to say that Tipec are biased based on the comments here about their show, and it's a shame if a few people on the way to a Tipec show damaged their reputation.

Let's get over the whole Tipec or PCGB, 911 or proper Porsches, or any other silly comparisons. We're all in the same family here....[:)]
 
with the greatest respect paul,,I wonder if you would have felt the same after a number of 944s turned up on masse to an Essex region meeting a few years back..
myself,, oli,,,edd [copperman],,,maz,,rick s and others arrived,,,it was a very cool welcome and seemed a huge divide between 911 drivers and us,,,,
like a junior school disco with the boys and girls at separate ends,,,its never going to go away and I expect boxster owners will be the next labelled,,
I wave to everybody,,
if they ignore me then no problem but unfortunately theres always someone who will adopt this superior attitude,,,,
 
Hmmmm.. did I miss something... when did this become a Tipec vs PCGB problem?.... Pete and now Glen only mentioned a lack of attitude towards them and their cars from other Porsche drivers, why bring Tipec into it? Personally I think Pete , Glen and others have a right to be a little upset by what happened, after all it was a Porsche event and they were driving Porsche's, personally I'd just ignore them, it's their loss as it shows them as people of lesser character... you know a step down the evolutionary scale... bit like their cars....er that's a joke...:)
As for Tipec, although god knows why they have come into this conversation , when I was more active they were always the more friendly group with more time for the water cooled models, I don't see why things would have changed, in fact find it very unlikely.

As i said in the beginning... ignore them... they really are not worth getting upset over....

Pete
 
Honestly Paul, your latest comments disappoint me enormously. This has absolutely nothing to do with TIPEC versus PCGB or one club versus another. I have no idea where you got that idea from.

If it is any way relevant to you (it isn't to me), the group Pete and I were with consisted of members of PCGB, TIPEC and those with no club affiliation at all; simply a group of Porsche owners out enjoying themselves together. We came together on the trip based on an open invitation to anyone with a Porsche of any sort who was making the trip which I publicised in various places. I have no idea which club, if any, the other group belonged to. It is NOT relevant.

Why are we discussing this on this forum? The thread was started by Pete who is a PCGB member... I am a PCGB member... It is continuation of a thread Pete started previously on this forum (hence the "II") in the title... This is OUR forum where we discuss Porsche and 944 related matters that affect us.

Please do everyone a favour and keep "club politics" out of it.
 
Well spoken Glenn and Jason [:)]. This isn't about PCGB or, TIPEC Paul. Nor 944's, 911's, Boxster's, Cayman's or, Lotus Cortina's!
It's about a bunch of "Stuck Up Buffoon's" with no manners [8|]! Can this be the end of this thread please? Jesus, I wish I'd never
started it [:(]!!
 
that was a deliberate comment designed to show how we are getting this out of proportion
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This!

My point was it's easy to make sweeping statements, but they are usualy based on a tiny minority and don't help anyone.

It wasn't anything to do with clubs or politics, just a deliberate comment designed to show how silly it is to tar people with one brush! I dodn't think it would be read wrongly, so I apologise. [&o]
 
You don't have to apologise for anything Paul [8|]. Jesus mate, you do enough for this forum and, the 944 register as everyone
knows (or should know) [;)]. Everyone on here writes crap from time to time that gets totally misread by others because, it doesn't
come across how it should read.....(does that read right?.....I'm pi55ed) [:D]!! Ha, ha!! That sounds really stupid.....! But I'm
gonna leave it there [:D].
 
I've ducked in and out of both threads on this subject as I also feel there is a bias towards those that have their engines in the wrong end of the car - but am not precious enough to get upset about it - can't help it if others do not have the same appreciation of the benefits of transaxle cars!!

However, I have to add this - on Sunday at the Goodwood FOS it seems there will be 3 Porsches on the PCGB stand. a 356, a Le Mans 962 racer - and a 968CS!!
 

ORIGINAL: jasonp

with the greatest respect paul,,I wonder if you would have felt the same after a number of 944s turned up on masse to an Essex region meeting a few years back..
myself,, oli,,,edd [copperman],,,maz,,rick s and others arrived,,,it was a very cool welcome and seemed a huge divide between 911 drivers and us,,,,
like a junior school disco with the boys and girls at separate ends,,,its never going to go away and I expect boxster owners will be the next labelled,,
I wave to everybody,,
if they ignore me then no problem but unfortunately theres always someone who will adopt this superior attitude,,,,
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Different groups have different dynamics. I use to attend Essex regularly and never felt people had an issue with 944's. New people entering any long standing group are seldom welcomed like long lost brothers it is just the nature of people - nothing to do with the car. Equally, arriving as a group, your group will have its own dynamic which others would feel less inclined to interfere with. Had you arrived as an individual I am sure Martyn and Greg would have gone out of their way to make you feel welcome. I can pretty much guarantee it had nothing to do with the cars.

I'll admit, if you had turned up in a 918 you might have received more interest. 944's don't necessarily interest people but that isn't a slight against 944's.

Look at it another way - two people turn up at the Rutland meet, one is in a 500 bhp 944 and another in a 964. Both will be welcome but the probability is more people will talk to the 944 owner because they have more common ground. That isn't being less welcoming to the 964 owner it is just the way of things.

Similarly 6 guys turn up in GT3's. They are all great mates, laughing and larking about. Do you bowl in there and immediately join in with their jolly japes...No of course you don't. You would perhaps feel a little intimidated and less likely to interact with them even though it was a Porsche gathering. Are you then shunning them because they have GT3's? No you just aren't interacting with them because you would have to infiltrate their group. Why would you bother? They're having a great time, you're having a great time, no one is shunning a particular car.

I have no idea why I am trying to rationalize this. The "944's are the poor relations" is a complete misconception. Get over it.

Not everyone is going to like you, that's the way life is. Don't put the blame on your car.
 

ORIGINAL: John Sims


ORIGINAL: jasonp

with the greatest respect paul,,I wonder if you would have felt the same after a number of 944s turned up on masse to an Essex region meeting a few years back..
myself,, oli,,,edd [copperman],,,maz,,rick s and others arrived,,,it was a very cool welcome and seemed a huge divide between 911 drivers and us,,,,
like a junior school disco with the boys and girls at separate ends,,,its never going to go away and I expect boxster owners will be the next labelled,,
I wave to everybody,,
if they ignore me then no problem but unfortunately theres always someone who will adopt this superior attitude,,,,
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Different groups have different dynamics. I use to attend Essex regularly and never felt people had an issue with 944's. New people entering any long standing group are seldom welcomed like long lost brothers it is just the nature of people - nothing to do with the car. Equally, arriving as a group, your group will have its own dynamic which others would feel less inclined to interfere with. Had you arrived as an individual I am sure Martyn and Greg would have gone out of their way to make you feel welcome. I can pretty much guarantee it had nothing to do with the cars.

I'll admit, if you had turned up in a 918 you might have received more interest. 944's don't necessarily interest people but that isn't a slight against 944's.

Look at it another way - two people turn up at the Rutland meet, one is in a 500 bhp 944 and another in a 964. Both will be welcome but the probability is more people will talk to the 944 owner because they have more common ground. That isn't being less welcoming to the 964 owner it is just the way of things.

Similarly 6 guys turn up in GT3's. They are all great mates, laughing and larking about. Do you bowl in there and immediately join in with their jolly japes...No of course you don't. You would perhaps feel a little intimidated and less likely to interact with them even though it was a Porsche gathering. Are you then shunning them because they have GT3's? No you just aren't interacting with them because you would have to infiltrate their group. Why would you bother? They're having a great time, you're having a great time, no one is shunning a particular car.

I have no idea why I am trying to rationalize this. The "944's are the poor relations" is a complete misconception. Get over it.

Not everyone is going to like you, that's the way life is. Don't put the blame on your car.
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Very much as John says. I was at the 944 gathering at the Essex meet and certainly don't have any recollection of us being treated as some sort of front engine lepers. All I remember is a very enjoyable evening with a bunch of fellow enthusiasts. People can't/shouldn't expect everyone to share an interest in the same cars/have the same attitude to waving or indeed anything else in life. To expect otherwise is bizarre really. Sometimes it might be due to some strange snobbish behaviour but generally its just people being people. There does seem to be a tendency at times for some in the 944 community to adopt the "Millwall" approach of "no one likes us and we don't care". That somehow a perceived bias that we are regarded as poor relations (while at the same time talking down the value of our cars !) is a badge of honour. I think both bad habits should be consigned to the past.

As a footnote I used to go regularly to the Essex meets when I lived over there and on my first evening there was stood feeling a bit awkward on my own. Martyn the RO made a point of saying hello and introducing me to a fellow 944 owner - which turned out to be John Sims.........

Of course it was all down hill from there on in ! [;)][;)]
 
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