Aston v 997TT

Sunil · Dec 21, 2005

First things first. I love driving my 997S. I think Porsche, on the whole, have done a great job. It's a shame that the car is let down in other ways.

I submitted a letter of intent to my OPC for the 997TT some time ago now and expect that I'll be asked to pay the £5,000 deposit sometime in the new year to formalise the order.

So my issue is this. I really do want the car (it looks great) but, in my opinion, when it comes to looking after their customers, PGB are pathetic and their OPCs are ineffective, . The TMC issue is a prime example. It's almost as if, once you've handed the money across, you're on your own. I already did that with my 997S and am not sure that I want to do it again with an additional £100,000 for the 997TT despite the fact that I really do want the car. How can I have confidence in a mnaufacturer who can't/won't resolve a problem of their own making when they have the means to do so for a retail cost of £400 by inserting some discs to update the PMC?

So, if I have no faith in my OPC, do I buy the car from an importer? If so, I save money but may still have the issue with PGB. The alternative, for this amount of money, would be an Aston. I do prefer Porsche but customer service is important and especially so if there's a problem.

Am I alone or does anyone else have similar views or experiences?

garyw · Dec 21, 2005

I'm in the same situation and having similar thoughts.

I no longer expect to be treated kindly or expect that the OPC will look after me, that way I'm not let down [&:]. I know I will get crap service and they won't ring me back, but what choice do I have. Being a member of the official club gets you no further [

] the salemen smuggly smile at you because they know, if you don't buy it- the next guy will.
But after all that I still want the car, and with no experience with Aston Martin, because they have never yet called me back [

] I can't comment on how I may get treated by them.
The AMV8 versus the 997TT really is going to be great, as for I now think that the AM is the prettier car for the first time, but is it the pretty car i want ???

garyw

Guest · Dec 21, 2005

AMV8 does not match the 997S for pace, so will be left behind by the 997TT.
The DB9 is not so fast, and even the Vanquish will struggle to keep up.
The 997TT will be hard to beat for performance.

For looks it is personal preference.
AM is more exclusive.

As for customer service, I guess you don't feel that special, but I am not convinced it will be so different elsewhere. Sales people are a certain breed, changing the name on the shirt doesn't change much.
Then you have to look at reliability and running costs.
More exclusivity = more expensive parts, and it worries me that the tests on the TV always seem to have problems with the AMs.

pmjt · Dec 21, 2005

In 1998 I purchased my first 996 - a C2 Coupe - I was so excited and loved the car. This was followed by a :

- 996 C2 Cab in 1999
- 996 C4 coupe in 2000
- 996 TT in 2001
- 996 TT in 2002
- 996 GT2 in 2003
- 996 TT Cab in 2003
- 996 GT3RS in 2004

You know the really funny thing? The more I spent with Porsche dealers in the Uk, the more they treated me like a muppet.

From loosing service books - and then refusing to replace it with anything other than one stamped 'replacement' to scratching my car while in for service - I've had it all.

I have also owned several Astons - including a Vanquish. The dealer staff couldn't have done more to help - or make me feel like they appreciated my business.

So - if you want customer service - don't buy a Porsche.

BUT if you want the best driving car on the road today - buy the 997TT and live with being sneared at, condescended to and generally treated like a pariah when you complain.

Alternitavely, do what I did - buy an M5 and have a couple of early 911's to remember when Porsche were truly great [

]

p

Marc B · Dec 22, 2005

Personnel I have nothing but positive comments to tell you about my experience with my OPC (Bournemouth) I have ordered two cars from there and service 3 cars there. They know me by name and always greet me by my first name. On the purchasing front they have been great, I get a call every 4/6 weeks giving asking if I need any further info, brochures etc(I had a call today) and the after sales much the same calls to ask if I am happy with the car any problems etc. Servicing again the same.

Basically they flatter my ego and give me the sort of service I expect when parting with nearly 90K. May I suggest that you give them a try.

Don't let one or two bad eggs spoil the omelette"¦

pvernham · Dec 22, 2005

I think that it is a sad indictment that in many walks of life, even when you spend a lot of hard earned cash, that you get poor service. It is not just confined to the car buying and ownership experience, although when one spends such a significant sum of money it is that bit more galling when good customer service is not forthcoming.

My OPC have been OK without being brilliant. I have only had one excellent experience and that is with one particular salesman who works for a local BMW franchise. Have bought three cars from him in the past 5 years and if he moves I will go with him.

Given that these salesmen are supposedly incentivised through their commission it is even more surpising that there are not more salesmen like him.

pmjt · Dec 23, 2005

ORIGINAL: pvernham
Given that these salesmen are supposedly incentivised through their commission it is even more surpising that there are not more salesmen like him.

Sorry - I should have explained that the *buying* process was always wonderful - my contact has become a dear friend over the years - it's just all the other stuff - like making sure hte car is sorted out / repairing / warranty stuff - the two OPC's I've bought from were not pleasant experiences - once they had my money in the bank.

p

Michael Downing · Dec 23, 2005

ORIGINAL: Marc B
Personnel I have nothing but positive comments to tell you about my experience with my OPC (Bournemouth)

Same goes for me re Swindon. Excellent service from both sales and service. Hi Leon - Hi Rob, if you read this.

Michael - the funny thing is that I've always been treated like c**p by Jag dealers. Maybe I look too young and poor? I think it may be the latter - based on the salesman's face when I insisted that he take a business card from me, insisted that my bag was in the car, insisted that he come to the car to collect it (virtually had to frogmarch him!), and then unlocked the 996 [

][

]

bobfair · Dec 23, 2005

I would like to echo Marc B's comments re the OPC at Bournemouth where my experience has been nothing but positive with the two 911's I have bought from them. Some times our forum can turn into a moaning shop where we get to hear only the negative. I agree completely that PGB could be more customer orientated and a little less arrogant. I would like a three year warranty for example . We need to find a way as a club to provide appropriate feedback to PGB that is realistic, balanced and for the benefit of all concerned. As Porsche expand their sales volume they will move away from the enthusiasts market and into a much wider consumer market that will be less forgiving. If I was running Porsche UK I would want to know what my customers were thinking as we do have a choice

Rob Edwards · Dec 23, 2005

Bobfair
I have to agree with you - as a club we should be proferring feedback to Porsche GB for them to change, should they wish to retain us as consumers (and let's face it as club members, we probably represent the most brand-loyal of their customers!).
I wholeheartedly agree about the 2 year warranty - this is very poor, especially as 3 yrs is the industry norm and some Korean brands offer 5 yrs.
Having to purchase a first aid kit is a bit tight too, especially when you can purchase a basic one for a fiver.
My experience of Porsche GB is that they are pleasant folk, but just prevaricate and dither, as if the problem might just go away on it's own if they leave it long enough.
As far as poor service with OPC's are concerned, there are good and bad ones just as in any cross section of the market. My advice would be to vote with ones feet and wallet, and ensure that the next car is bought from a 'better' centre - and let the dealer principal know why!
Perhaps as a club we might let our feelings be known - curiously on my last 2 porsches, I never received any feedback form to fill in from Porsche GB. They did not call me to see how satisfied/dissatisfied I was, and when I had reason to call them (I did not receive my warranty/breakdown card etc) I found I was not even on their system! If this is symptomatic, then how can they be receiving customer satisfaction levels on any kind of qualitative/quantitative level? BMW on the other hand wanted to know everything, warts and all, right down to the 'handover' process and attitude of salesman! No wonder they are doing well - they elicit feedback and the use it to good effect.
Chief gripes -

* TMC issue needs to be resolved fast before dissatisfied customers 'jump' brands
* RMS - ditto
*3 yr warranty standard

I could go on, but I am sure there are others who may wish to add comment.

It pains me to say this, but after 15 yrs of porsche ownership, I will be looking very closely at the AMV8 or others in a few years time, as the way I am treated and valued is an important part of the 'ownership' experience, even if dynamically the AM is inferior to my 997S.
I'll get down off my soapbox now.......!
Rob[8D]

graham m · Dec 23, 2005

Time's change "" as do people and regimes! I walked into my local OPC some 8 years ago and was treated really poorly "" £20K of my own money in my back pocket to buy a 968 and was told "we don't deal in the lower end of the market". I took my paltry sum to an independent who was only too happy to help. 4 years ago same OPC but relocated and the sales guy there didn't seem to understand what "˜special' or "˜a bit different' meant, trying to get me into a green 996 with sand coloured trim on 17" wheels. (No offence meant to any green "" sand interior 996 owners) 18 months ago "" same OPC, new salesman, a new sales manager and a different regime. First class service no quibbles, excellent after sales service, and first name terms with most of the sales and service technicians. However no resolve on the TMC "" live in hope but it's not a show stopper in the grand scheme of things. I too have LoI for the 997TT and looked at the AM V8 Vantage last week "" but not able to drive one for the foreseeable future, and if I deposit now still wont get that car till end of 2007. Plus it's strictly a two seater "" the DB9 is very nice but a big car compared to the Porsche. There are dilemmas now as a body kitted 997-4S does look exceptionally smart, but perhaps slower than my current S! Do I really need 450+ HP? It is tempting!
Graham

Marc B · Dec 24, 2005

Just as an add on, I would like to agree with Rob in that the way I am treated by the OPC is very much part of the ownership experience and should not be under estimated. I think that the better centres know this. Its far easier to sell cars/services etc to satisfied existing customer than it is to find new ones all the time.

pwebb · Dec 28, 2005

My twopenny worth - been buying from the Guildford OPC for a number of years, and while the sales staff change, some key people have remained, and it is from them that I've experienced top service. Never had any major complaints and always greeted courteously.

The dealership has grown and grown in size, which troubles me slightly as I remember when they had to share a much smaller space with Audi or Subaru to make ends meet. The market for these cars is finite, and some of the comments on this thread are beginning to remind me when the dealers were arrogant in the late 80's - and we all remember what happened to Porsche then.

On a positive note, I've got the TMC fitted and working FOC on my early 997S, and thanks for the tip on the postcode search. Again, helpful dealer working with Reading to get a solution. Sorry others haven't had as much joy.

Happy New Year to you all!

Peter

pwebb · Dec 28, 2005

Michael
The clue is in my reply, I think. No tricks, just a good relationship with the OPC over a number of years and a polite request.
Peter

sawood12 · Dec 28, 2005

Sounds like alot of you are giving AM dealerships more credit than they deserve. In my experiance all dealerships quality of service is poor once the sale has been made (granted i've never purchased a car anywhere near the value of a 997TT or AM!). It would be a shame to choose a lesser car on the strength of the perceived quality of dealership service only to be dissapointed after you have made the purcase! I think that though the quality of service from OPC's may have deteriorated since they have become more of a mass producer but I would be very surprised if the quality of service has deteriorated to a level worse than other manufacturer dealer network - maybe Porsche owners have been spoiled up till now. I'm sure the quality of service varies greatly from OPC to OPC. My nearest OPC (Nottingham) certainly seems to be very helpful whenever I pop in for parts and i've never even bought a car from them! They give me discounts whithout even asking, happy to provide me with advice on repairs and servicing even if it doesn't result in a sale and have never looked down on me being a lowly 944 owner. I would buy a car off them without hesitation. Maybe you should try another OPC before before making your decision over the 911TT over the AM, the 911 afterall is promising to be an awsome car.

Guest · Dec 31, 2005

ORIGINAL: Sunil

First things first. I love driving my 997S. I think Porsche, on the whole, have done a great job. It's a shame that the car is let down in other ways.

I submitted a letter of intent to my OPC for the 997TT some time ago now and expect that I'll be asked to pay the £5,000 deposit sometime in the new year to formalise the order.

So my issue is this. I really do want the car (it looks great) but, in my opinion, when it comes to looking after their customers, PGB are pathetic and their OPCs are ineffective, . The TMC issue is a prime example. It's almost as if, once you've handed the money across, you're on your own. I already did that with my 997S and am not sure that I want to do it again with an additional £100,000 for the 997TT despite the fact that I really do want the car. How can I have confidence in a mnaufacturer who can't/won't resolve a problem of their own making when they have the means to do so for a retail cost of £400 by inserting some discs to update the PMC?

So, if I have no faith in my OPC, do I buy the car from an importer? If so, I save money but may still have the issue with PGB. The alternative, for this amount of money, would be an Aston. I do prefer Porsche but customer service is important and especially so if there's a problem.

Am I alone or does anyone else have similar views or experiences?

You are not alone!

A bit about me...
I moved in this country 2 years and 5 months ago but knew I would be moving 8 months ahead. I've owned 11 Porsches in total across the 964, 993, 986, 996 and my wife currently has a Cayenne S. I've bought them all at OPCs around the world and have raced 911s since 1999. I currently have a 964 RSR campaigned in the Porsche Open.

My office is across the road from the OPC in Reading and 3 years ago I went in and dropped £1000 for a 997S. Iwas promised it for August 2004. In July, not having heard from them I called them to be told that my salesperson had left the company and that my car would not be available until at the earliest April - 6 months later than I wanted. Tried talking to the MD who did not give a crap... Took my money to Graypaul in Laughborough and bought a Modena instead...

A few months later, my wife wanted a Cayenne S, very similar story repeated itself so again, I took my money but my wife did want the car so I looked at other dealerships and found a decent salesperson in Bristol. So decent, that I told the guy I'd sell the 360 and get a Cayenne S and 997 S from him if he cut me a decent deal. He said that unfortunately Porsche could not discount. I agreed and explained that there were things he could do: free maintenance at 20,000, free trackers, whatever. He said no problem. Put my money down, picked up the Cayenne and when the time came for the 997 order he renegged... instead I would get free carpets: £100 discount on £120,000 worth of cars!

It's JUST CRAZY the way they treat people and by the looks of the churn in their personnel, they treat them as well as customers... This will catch up with them. I'm now going to buy my car from an independant guy that sources C16 spec cars in Europe and they will loose their £10K on my car...

In any case, I'm really upset with Porsche for a host of reasons but at the end of the day, they do have the best cars for what I want to do with them.

My biggest gripe is that they are manipulating the market by artificially restricting demand - when in the US I can get a 997S discounted by 5% any day of the week.

Sorry for the rant
JM

garyw · Dec 31, 2005

Just playing devils advocate,
but discounts can possibly devalue a product... and lead onto greater/quicker depreciation.

But yes I'd still like one[

] (a discount that is )

garyw

colin129 · Dec 31, 2005

As an aside, went to get some parts for my 944S2 the other month from Reading. Instead of the dedicated parts desk they used to have, with knowledgeable staff, some spotty 'yuff' who didn't know what he was taking about came out.

Having sold me the part I thought I needed, I immediately tried it but it did not solve the problem (I told him beforehand that it may not be right) and went directly back to him, before he managed to squirrel himself away somewhere.

It was a bit of a stuggle to get a refund, barely 5 mins after I purchased the part. Threatened to charge me 20%!! Case of jobs worth I think, as I did explain it may not solve my problem...

Before the revamp, the service seemed to be so much better...used to be happy to give free fuses and bulbs, as the paperwork wasn't worth the effort...I doubt they would do that anymore...

Just some experience from the other end of the spectrum...

sawood12 · Dec 31, 2005

Again there seems to be a big variation in quality of service from OPC to OPC. Even though there isn't a dedicated service desk at the Nottingham OPC I have no problem in getting through to the service dept over the phone where the people i've spoken to so far seem to be fairly knowledgeable. In the past they've faxed me through diagrams when i've been trying to describe a part I don't know the name of to make sure we all know what we are talking about.

Having said that I don't know for how much longer the OPC network will be able to retain knowledgable staff. My Independant Porsche Specialist used to work at an OPC and became so disillusioned with their new attitude he left and set up shop himself. My philosophy is never to trust dealerships no matter what car you have at any cost. I've got friends and work collegues who have had experiance with most of the major manufacutrers from SEAT and VW to Mercedes and even Ferrari and every single one of them have tales of woe to tell. In fact a recent freind of mine was loosing engine coolant was fobbed off by his dealer with the excuse that it was evaporating!!! I told him to not take that as an excuse and low and behold it turned out to be a leaking waterpump which he got sorted under warranty. They are all sharks and don't think that because you are spending alot of money with them you should expect some improved level of service. Unfortunately it's a sad fact of life these days.

Your best bet is to pick the most reliable car you can to minimise your contact with the dealers - another good reason to go for Porsche -I think they came 8th in the JD Power survey so generally the vast majority of owners of new Porsches are very satisfied with their choice - certaily more satisfied than AM owners.