Attention 2010/2011 Turbo and S Owners – Camshaft Controller Failure (US Safety Recall)

[too_good]

[FONT=calibri"]
[FONT=calibri"]To re-quote the US NHTSA in connection with the current recall of ALL North America cars built in the given manufacturing period and not already repaired: they ask Porsche to "explain why this recall was filed in June 2017 when recalls for the same failure were initiated in April 2013 for substantially similar vehicles in Japan and during January 2015 for vehicles in China and Korea.” It appears that the collective efforts of numerous US owners complaining to the authorities finally compelled Porsche to do something. Note that there was an earlier US campaign to recall only selected VINs, but clearly the issue cannot be reliably confined to select cars, hence the wholesale recall. Also, BMW did the right thing in 2014, undertaking a global recall of 500k cars owing to equivalent camshaft issues (same component manufacturer).
[FONT=calibri"]
[FONT=calibri"]To extend this logic, I cannot see how Porsche can reasonably contend or prove (or that the DVSA can conclude) that cars that happen to ship to the UK are fine (these cars are all made in the same factory (‘substantially similar’), demonstrably have the same defective bolts, etc.). Crucially, the (UK!) workshop I used has seen these bolts shearing off and camshafts failing first hand. Perhaps one reason there is little noise about this in the UK to date is because the bolts appear to typically hold out for 70k miles or so (per US owner forum posts). There are 18k US owners of impacted Cayennes and Panameras and they appear to cover relatively high miles vs a UK owner based on my reading on the forums – so a much larger owner base doing higher mileages typically, thus more failure incidences occurring and corresponding complaints to the NHTSA, etc. My CTT is 7 years old, but has only 53k miles. Expect many such cars are below average mileage.
[FONT=calibri"]
[FONT=calibri"]In any event, Porsche’s own product safety committee acknowledges the safety risk as you know and I don’t think Porsche GB can justifiably continue to feign ignorance of this known-issue and inconvenient truth. The report filed by Porsche NA states: "On May 31, 2017, the product safety committee of Porsche AG came to the conclusion that…a safety related defect could not be excluded. It was therefore decided to conduct a voluntary recall of all potentially affected vehicles in the U.S. and Canada.”

 

[too_good]

I trust that the DVSA’s investigation will finally compel Porsche GB to accept there must an issue here too based on the available evidence - just like the US highway safety administration recently did (and other equivalent bodies in the Japan, China, etc.).

 

[condor]

When the DVSA finally instigates a recall, I presume you will get a full or partial rebate.

In the meantime, can you please 'private message' me which dealer performed the work.

My car has only covered 46,000 miles, so its well shy of the 70,000 miles point at which the problem may manifest.

Cheers

 

[vespakandy]

Hi, I have just had a 2010 Cayenne Diesel with what sounds like exactly the same issue. Currently waiting for the car to be repatriated from France for full assessment. The OPC said they were familiar with the issue, and most cars that had failed all had done similar milage to me (80k miles) and are trying to find the indie that other customers had used.
If this is a common and known issue, this need common action and for porsche to address this.

 

[vespakandy]

To add, The dealer the OPC had mentioned was Hartech, John at Tower Porsche has also had at least one of these recently and said he is aware of the issue and recall in other countries.

 

[too_good]

Thank you for flagging this case. As far as I know/knew, the camshaft controller failure only impacts 2010/2011 PETROL V8 models. Specifically:

Cayenne S and Turbos
Panamera S, 4S and Turbos

However, very interested to know if it transpires that diesels are also affected. Please keep us informed.

Incidentally, my formal submission to the DVSA (referred to earlier in this thread) to request an investigation in to this manufacturing defect and safety risk ultimately resulted in Porsche stating in response that my car (built Oct 2010) is built AFTER the affected vehicles. Porsche also stated that in the event of this failure (surely not relevant if my UK car is not affected!), an engine warning light with reduced power would result, but the car would still be driveable. Porsche forums in the US such as 6SpeedOnline suggest otherwise (e.g., sudden engine failure in outside lane of freeway).

I remain appalled that Porsche’s own product safety committee can conclude that a recall is warranted on safety grounds in several other countries (amounting to 35k+ 2010/2011 year cars), but that the UK is miraculously totally unaffected, despite using visually identical camshaft bolts for this production period (and I believe all the cars are made in the same factory essentially to boot). Indeed, the excellent North London specialist I used to undertake a preventative repair has seen multiple crippled early Panameras and 958 Cayenne cars as a direct result of these camshaft bolt failures.

 

[vespakandy]

I'm not particularly technical either. Attaching pictures of the offending aluminum bolt on my car observed with the dental mirror (notice the pin in the middle of the top of the screw), as well as what the improved design of bolt looks like (steel ones with no central pin - these are also magnetic, whereas the faulty screws are not FYI).

If the pictures do not upload successfully, take a look towards the bottom of the page here:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/cayenne-958/319690-snapped-camshaft-adjuster-bolt-engine-brake-hydraulics-failure-38.html

I suggest we impacted owners report this 'serious safety defect' to the DVSA - if several of us collectively raise the issue to them, I am hoping that this prompts them to investigate sooner rather than later and compel a recall. Excerpt of DVSA website below (clearly the authorities in other countries have deemed this a 'serious safety defect' which Porsche must rectify, with Porsche's own safety committee also coming to the same conclusion). I have raised the matter to Porsche GB to no avail so it is reasonable to now refer it to the DVSA. Safety aside, should the issue arise and the owner has no warranty, the potential repair cost is enormous. Regardless of a warranty covering the repair cost, there is the inconvenience of potentially being stranded in the first instance and the lead time to repair possibly running to weeks/months (e.g., if a replacement engine was required) - I want a car I can trust and rely on with my young family.

---------------------

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect
[h1]Report a serious safety defect [/h1]If you find a serious defect that affects the safety of your vehicle, one of its parts, or an accessory, report it to the manufacturer immediately.
Tell the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) if you’re not happy with how the manufacturer is dealing with your report.

DVSA will:

• investigate the issue with the manufacturer
• tell you what action is being taken

The vehicle, part or accessory can be recalled if it’s found to be a serious safety issue.
[h3]What counts as a serious safety defect[/h3]A serious safety defect is something:

• about the way the vehicle is designed or made that’s likely to cause injury or death
• that happens suddenly and without warning

Only report a ‘serious safety defect’.

I have also submitted a report to the DVSA, and I hope all others do the same.

 

[Bulletpete]

I have a 2010 Panamera 4S petrol V8 and my garage has just informed me that this exact problem has occurred. The steered aluminium bolt have caused alot of damage. Best case my bill will be in the region of £7400, if the head is also damaged they want another £2800!.
This is the first I know about the recall in USA and China. I will discuss with dealership tomorrow but I do not hold much hope.
Btw my vehicle has just clocked 65,000 miles.
Any advise would be greatly received.

 

[vespakandy]

You have got to purse Porsche UK.
if every person who suffers from this pursues then, eventually they will be forced to do something.
my cayenne diesel has been confirmed with the same issue.

 

[too_good]

Bulletpete - so the garage has identified that camshaft controller bolts have sheered off into your engine and caused massive damage - has the garage still got the defective camshaft controller/broken bolts and/or do you have pictures? Agree that you must report defect this to the DVSA for investigation and follow-up with Porsche GB - including pictures would be useful.

How did the break down occur, was it a potentially dangerous situation or sudden occurence? Porsche GB have advised that warning lights would show and the car would still be driveable in the event of this failure (with reduced power). Based on the US forums, this can be the case, but also sudden failure can occur - it all depends on which part of the engine the snapped bolt(s) fall in to. Porsche GB has also advised that my 2010 car was built AFTER the affected vehicles despite the thousands of cars recalled in other countries built before and after mine (and yours). Again and yet, my garage has seen several Cayennes and Panameras with this scenario.

Vespakandy - you have reported your case to the DVSA I think? I thought this only effected V8 petrol engines, but this exact issue has affected your diesel?

 

[vespakandy]

Yes, the 3.0 2010 diesel (new shape). Confirmed cam controller bolt by Tower Porsche.

 

[too_good]

Very interesting Vespakandy. Any potential danger or sudden failure for you? Porsche seemingly partly justifies inaction in UK on basis that they believe there is no real risk/danger arising from such a fault. Despite Porsche AG's own safety committee concluding a safety risk could not be ruled out.

 

[vespakandy]

I explained to Porsche gb that the engine power was nil at 80mph in the fast lane of the motorway, going up a hill, so yes, it was very dangerous as I had to slam the gear box into neutral to stop the violent shaking and then swerve across 3 lanes of traffic.
i’d call That dangerous!
porsche gb really are a bunch of shallow wankers.

 

[richardjjs1]

Have you tried the "Not Fit For Purpose" line
It is very worrying the Porsche GB would not correct this fault
But there are other mechanical issues with this Brand that are not addressed but they still keep producing cars with the same afult (IMS Bearing 996/986etc)
Surely if its a recall in US then if they refuse here Its Not Fit for Purpose

Here's the response from the OPC ..

[FONT=porsche next"]"I have now put together an estimate to replace the camshaft actuators on your Cayenne as requested.
[FONT=porsche next"]The cost to replace the bolts in these units, should all the bolts be tight/present would come to - £1486.32 Inc VAT
[FONT=porsche next"]Should there be any bolts that have loosened or are missing then the actuators will require replacement - The costs for this would come out at £2361.94 Inc VAT
[FONT=porsche next"]As mentioned, if you have experienced no issues with your vehicle there is no need to carry out this repair. Any issue you may face of this nature will of course be covered under your extended warranty."

[FONT=porsche next"]Question for you please .. 'what symptoms could I have experienced ?'

 

[too_good]

Right, that failure scenario echoes reports from US forums - only luck and quick thinking avoided a potentially fatal outcome. It is appaling that Porsche GB dismiss safety risks on the grounds that there is 'fair warning' via warning lights and the car remains driveable in the event of a failure. They also essentially stated in their response via the DVSA when I complained that 'Porsche AG have not issued a recall and therefore there is no issue for UK cars.'

The DVSA defines a 'serious safety defect' is something:

- about the way the vehicle is designed or made that's likely to cause injury or death
- that happens suddenly and without warning

Conversely, if 'warned about defects by warning lights, noticeable changes in handling and unusual noises, this does not count.'

It sounds like your experience passes as the former. The more reports lodged with the DVSA, the more they must surely take note (if I am the only person to do so, we have generated negligible noise).

 

[Bulletpete]

Bulletpete - so the garage has identified that camshaft controller bolts have sheered off into your engine and caused massive damage - has the garage still got the defective camshaft controller/broken bolts and/or do you have pictures? Agree that you must report defect this to the DVSA for investigation and follow-up with Porsche GB - including pictures would be useful.

How did the break down occur, was it a potentially dangerous situation or sudden occurence? Porsche GB have advised that warning lights would show and the car would still be driveable in the event of this failure (with reduced power). Based on the US forums, this can be the case, but also sudden failure can occur - it all depends on which part of the engine the snapped bolt(s) fall in to. Porsche GB has also advised that my 2010 car was built AFTER the affected vehicles despite the thousands of cars recalled in other countries built before and after mine (and yours). Again and yet, my garage has seen several Cayennes and Panameras with this scenario.

Vespakandy - you have reported your case to the DVSA I think? I thought this only effected V8 petrol engines, but this exact issue has affected your diesel?

See attached photo of sheered bolts. The history of my fault was basically my wife was driving around 30 mph and loss of power and PSM warning light followed by check engine light. Car was still drivable and the car was driven 5 miles home. Next day fault disappeared. A few day later reappeared to myself. Similar to before i drove car home.
Following this i booked car into garage and fault had disappeared again. Porsche found no problems. I collected car and was surprised they found no fault. 20 minutes (3 miles later) the PSM light came on and Check engine. i was 200 yrds from work doing 20mph i managed to limp the car to work. Once on car park car was pretty much undrivable. Car was then take to garage on low loader.
I have since mention to Porsche about the recall etc. at them moment they are showing no interest even saying my vehicle would probably fall outside of recall even if there was one!!

 

[too_good]

Thank you for the picture Bulletpete. I can't make out if the bolt has the telltale pin in the centre (like the picture on the previous page of posts), but suspect it does?

This is despite Porsche GB stating in its defence of my DVSA compliant that the fault did not affect UK vehicles (only US, Canada, China, Japan, Korea, etc. on that basis!). So your car warned you of a fault and the failure arguably did not cause a danger to you or others, thereby not being deemed a safety defect by the DVSA. Equally, it could have been dangerous if you were travelling at higher speeds (and vespaknady has clearly illustrated that there is not always fair warning and that the car can suddenly become undriveable). 2010/2011 petrol V8s (and it sounds like even diesels based on vespakandy's experience) are going to suffer this failure sooner or later seemingly as mileage mounts up on these 7/8 year old cars...and there is a clear safety risk. It is pitiful that there is a notion of arguing the toss here and that Porsche GB are failing to take responsibility, choosing apathy and feigned ignorance with UK owners. Indeed, this short article is an interesting read (note the 2011 Panamera owner posting in response just 2 days ago!): https://www.classaction.org/news/class-action-porsche-knowingly-sold-cars-with-defective-camshaft-adjuster-bolts

 

[shadow8]

Thank you for highlighting this from the USA. It's clear that all Turbo and S models are likely to be affected and it would be interesting to know what Porsche USA replaced these bolts with. Replacing them could prove that they knew beforehand of the problem and not issuing a global recall would indicate negligence on their part.
Perhaps you could say what response you received from the DVSA to spotlighting the situation and whether there is anything ongoing. I am more than happy to add to the complainers list if it helps. I don't want to put my foot down one day and blow the engine up as these bolts self-destruct due to them being the wrong material!
Look forward to hearing more about this major concern....
Tony

 

[too_good]

Tony - production switched from using weak aluminium bolts to steel variants. Note that the US/global recall to date (of approx. 35,000 vehicles from memory) has involved replacing the whole camshaft assembly unit (both of them). Indeed, this is the preventative repair I undertook last year accordingly too. It is essentially impractical/impossible to simply swap out the offending bolts with fit-for-purpose replacements - the whole camshaft units need to be replaced.

The DVSA appeared to act as a middle man by simply referring my compliant to Porsche GB for comment; Porsche essentially responded to say that no recall has been issued, UK cars are unaffected and that there would always be a warning in the event of failure anyway! Based on this thread and insights from the North London specialist which undertook the work on my car, it is false that UK cars are unaffected. Based on this thread and the US forums I have read, there is a risk of sudden catastrophic failure without due warning. This makes it all the more disappointing that the DVSA seemingly undertook no independent investigation/analysis despite recalls elsewhere, etc.

Please do report your concerns to the DVSA - for all I know, I am the only person to have done so - we need to create noise on the subject. The collective action of US owners appeared to finally result in Porsche issuing a recall at the request of the US's Highway Safety Administration (NHTSA). Indeed, I suggest reading this 2016 article from a Californian legal firm which hits the nail on the head re: Porsche's handling of the issue...

[NB: this article PRE-DATES the wholesale US recall which followed in 2017/2018 - again, we need to create noise on this issue in the UK to have any chance of Porsche GB doing the right thing...]

https://www.bestattorney.com/blog/porsche-camshaft-defect-comes-to-light

"It would appear while this defect can have dangerous consequences, there have not been enough actual observed cases and complaints to NHTSA to launch an investigation into this issue that may lead to a mandated recall. A recall campaign for any manufacturer is costly – not only from service and replacement costs, but also in the damage that it can do to a brand. It is likely that Porsche would want keep all negative press to a minimum and therefore would want to deal with issue quietly – replacing the camshaft bolts in some cars that they know are affected, but not making a lot of effort to service every car that they’ve manufactured that may have defective bolts installed. However, if an injury or death were to occur due to a camshaft bolt failure, Porsche would absolutely be liable and could be determined to have been negligent in not escalating the issue to try to fix more of the affected vehicles. For now, Porsche drivers can only hope that the attention this issue is receiving will pressure Porsche to put their customers’ safety before their profit margins."

[FONT=arial"][URL=https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect]https://www.gov.uk/vehicl...-serious-safety-defect[/URL]

 

[732WKX]

Hi Guys
First post
I am based in Devon and have just been told by my inde that on bank one the 4 bolts on the camshaft have either sheared or fallen out.
it was on the to-do list after the transfer box.
The warranty will pick up the fixing but I'm having to pay for the exploratory side determining the damage caused by defective bolts.
My vehicle is a late 10 plate turbo done 54,000 miles, always serviced and looked after.
What i want to do is collect a list of everyone in the UK using this engine Cayenne and Panamera that has had an engine failure once done iwill
pass the info directly to Porsche AG bypassing the UK dealers who deny there is a problem!!
Thank for your assistance
Regards Gordon.