BARRED

[Peter_Bull]

Hi Harriet

I agree with John here.

We should have enough flexibility within the rules to include everyone. Exclusion should not be an issue in a club like ours. We are here to provide an enjoyable experience for everyone.

The OP, Mike, is right to be rather pi**ed off. I would l feel the same.

Just imagine if we had a 356 entered that was say 50 yrs old that had done the required 30.000 in its life. That would equate to 600 miles per year and would still be eligible. It's nonsense. Just as the wheels up nut and bolt restoration of a 20 year old car that's done 200.000 miles and entered the concours on a trailer having done zero miles! It makes no sense.

We should try and encourage all comers to concours, even if this means a constant 'evolution' of the rules. Very Porsche like !

After all, the number of concours entrants has declined over the 20 years I have been in the club and it would be a sad day if we were denied the wonderful spectacle of these fabulous cars and their owners at our national and regional events. They add the glamour and even encouragement for us all to aspire to something we may even consider ourselves.

Mine is no longer the garage queen it used to be, I use it every day and love it. Concours condition it isn't, but it still looks like new (to me) and I clean it every week without fail.

 

[Peter_Bull]

Hi Harriet

Many thanks for your phone call earlier this evening. I really do appreciate the effort and time that you have gone to explain to me directly the details of this particular situation, the concours rules and organisation.

So much so that I feel that my posted reply on this thread earlier today was unwarranted and could have been hurtful to all those who give their time to national concours organisation, I have therefore had no hesitation in deleting it.

It was the last thing on my mind that I should cause any offence and it clearly did. Please accept my apologies.

I guess like everyone else we sometime have a blinkered view of things and not always see someone else point of view.

Quite clearly we are not going to be able to please everyone all of the times, but it is heartening to hear you tell me that the rules do in fact evolve after every concours and that the concours committee actually encourage feedback and are not too proud to alter the rules when it is required.

Well done and please keep up the great work you do for the club!

 

[millisland]

Thank you Peter. That is indeed very generous of you.

Should anyone else need clarification on any aspect of concours, please do not hesitate to get in touch with me.

Harriet

 

[MIKE VERRAN]

Hi guys have decided to take richards advice and get out more,so have parked up my S8 D3 and am continuing with the running in process on my 996 (now 8350 miles)

 

[rob.kellock]

From the perspective of an ordinary member, I think that there are certain insurmountable difficulties in achieving "fairness" with concours competitions that frequently result in upset.

The first issue is that judging is carried out by human beings whose subjective opinions determine the winners and losers. They are inevitabley inconsistent, perhaps most notably when owners retain their score sheets from previous years. It has become almost a standing joke that David Baker's 993 always seems to do worse and worse each year at our R18 competition despite despite being presented in increasingly pristine order!

The second issue is that no matrix can ever fairly even out the age/mileage balance of the vehicles to create a level playing field- unlike golfers, concours entrants can't be given a handicap rating! I remember a couple of years ago at R18 concours, my 996 was parked next to Peter Bull's. At the time, my car although a year younger had done more than 5 times the mileage that Peter's had. Whatever I did to present my car, Peter's was always going to be better. If the 2 vehicles were presented to the same standard, there would be no fair outcome to determine the winner - should the worst car win because it has done an extra 40000 miles or the better car win, erm, because it is better!!

The most extreme example of this was, just for fun, I chose this year's concours date to collect my new Spyder. I literally drove it out of the showroom at Bolton and into the line up, the car having never been driven on a public road and had 9 delivery miles on the clock! I wouldn't let the Judges mark it out of respect to members who had spent their hard earned time preparing their pride and joys for the competition but if I had wanted to be an arse, the car would have been impossible to beat.

I have a lot of respect for those who prepare their cars to high standards and also for those who give up their time to organise the competitions but I genuinely don't know how events can be organised that fairly cater for all?

 

[tscaptain]

ORIGINAL: rob.kellock

The most extreme example of this was, just for fun, I chose this year's concours date to collect my new Spyder. I literally drove it out of the showroom at Bolton and into the line up, the car having never been driven on a public road and had 9 delivery miles on the clock! I wouldn't let the Judges mark it out of respect to members who had spent their hard earned time preparing their pride and joys for the competition but if I had wanted to be an arse, the car would have been impossible to beat.

Yours must have been better prepared than my last three new ones then Rob. []

 

[vitesse]

Gosh,Rob,what an intelligent letter & there again ,Ive always thought you could be a bit of an A**e if you really tried-I suppose it's just the legal mind shining through.Peter's 1st post was quite a good sensible one too & we aren't able to assess why there was such a creeping retraction.
It does seem(just like the Directors expenses matter) that sensibly expressed opinions tend to be slapped down by the Glitterati as though it underminds their voluntary effort-we ought to be bigger than that.However ,who am I to comment-I don't have the time to try concours with our 24 yr old 924S which is still in v good condition.

All said in good faith.[]

 

[rob.kellock]

tscaptain - very good! It did get a bit of a wipe with a microfibre cloth to remove some excess polish before I took the keys! In fairness to Bolton OPC though, the car was extremely well presented.

 

[Fred Hindle]

ORIGINAL: rob.kellock

In fairness to Bolton OPC though, the car was extremely well presented.

But not as well presented as the winner's car (Mark) nor the runner up's car (Jamie).

(Region 18 Concours Organiser)

 

[rob.kellock]

saucer of milk for Mr Hindle?

You do know that OPC Bolton prepped Jamie's car too don't you? []

 

[Fred Hindle]

No milk for me thanks Rob. Just ask either of the two judges. Jamie's car was probably prepped by them when he bought it but I bet you anything Jamie cleaned and polished it a couple of times in the meantime. Anyhow the five points off for no club badge would have put you lower on points! []

 

[rob.kellock]

ORIGINAL: Fred Hindle

Just ask either of the two judges.

I did.

Fred, even taking into account your dark sense of humour, I am not sure if you are joking, serious or deliberately trying to wind me up. If the latter, you have succeeded.

If serious, your observations neatly summarise everything that is wrong with concours as set out by other posters above.

If you were joking, I am afraid that it's lost on me.

 

[MIKE VERRAN]

Slightlly off topic how do you get to the venue from the centre of oxford? thanks

 

[garyw]

ORIGINAL: MIKE VERRAN

Slightlly off topic how do you get to the venue from the centre of oxford? thanks

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=&daddr=Unknown+road&geocode=FWqmFwMd_9Ps_w&hl=en-GB&mra=mr&sll=51.883591,-1.244202&sspn=0.036291,0.111151&ie=UTF8&ll=51.881101,-1.256347&spn=0.018147,0.055575&z=15

A4260 North towards Banbury out of Oxford and turn right on the A4095.
The grounds are on the right as you leave the vilage of Kirtlington.
Hope that helps...

garyw