Boxster 1st Gen buyers guide?

krazy_kameleon · Jan 29, 2016

Hi All,

I am a brand new member to the Porsche Club GB and am looking to buy my first Porsche.
(Well 2nd, I used to own a 1960 356B but circumstance meant I had to sell her a few years back - a discussion that still upsets me)

I am looking at a 2000 Boxster 3.2S to get me back on the Porsche 'ladder'

There is a very nice 996 buyers guide on the forum but nothing like that exists for buyers of a Boxster.

Can anyone out there point me in the right direction of things to look out for when purchasing a 16 year old Boxster?

Cheers,

Richard

Chappelle · Jan 29, 2016

Welcome aboard

There are a few books available for instance:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Porsche-Boxster-Cayman-Models/dp/0954999061/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1454102948&sr=1-7&keywords=porsche+boxster

Not worth £45 mind you!

I'm far from being an expert and I'm sure others can give you advice. Look for oil leaks between engine and gearbox can be signs of the Rear Main Seal(RMS) going.

Have a look at this:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/13-ENGINE-Common_Engine_Failures/13-ENGINE-Common_Engine_Failures.htm

Search on IMS too. Other things I can think to look at are the inside of the brake disks; check the roof for rips and tears and make sure the drain holes with it half open/closed are clear and also check for leaks from the front rads

C2dweller · Jan 30, 2016

I helped contribute to one in Car & Classic - if you pm me I'll *try* and find the Pdf I have.

in my experience, most of the horrors lie underbeath the car and buried in the ECU, so get any prospective car to the nearest specialist for a check over.

My 2p - buy high spec and low mileage and you'll never look back.

kr, Lee

MrDemon · Jan 30, 2016

Don't is my advice.

16 year old cars are not nice things as people don't want to spend money on them.

a refresh would cost more than the car is worth if all the main items have not been done.

And when looking at £6k cars people don't have the money to spend another £10k on them, so they just get worse and worse and cheaper and cheaper.
with a major OPC service costing £1k can you see owners of £6k cars spending even on a service ! it will be a cheap oil change down at quick fit.
they are NOT £6k cars to look after they are £45k cars and the parts that go with the Porsche brand cost mega money.

Think I would be looking at a Honda S2000 or something with that amount to spend.

krazy_kameleon · Jan 30, 2016

MrDemon said:
Don't is my advice.

16 year old cars are not nice things as people don't want to spend money on them.

a refresh would cost more than the car is worth if all the main items have not been done.

And when looking at £6k cars people don't have the money to spend another £10k on them, so they just get worse and worse and cheaper and cheaper.
with a major OPC service costing £1k can you see owners of £6k cars spending even on a service ! it will be a cheap oil change down at quick fit.
they are NOT £6k cars to look after they are £45k cars and the parts that go with the Porsche brand cost mega money.

Think I would be looking at a Honda S2000 or something with that amount to spend.

Thanks for the feedback and advice. I appreciate seeing the different viewpoints and experiences of others.
I do understand the risks in buying an old vehicle and don't expect this to be any different.
I just want to avoid any obvious pitfalls so I don't buy a complete lemon.
I am not looking to buy a Boxster because I want a roadster, if that was the case I would buy a Mazda Miata and never have a days worries.
I am buying it because it is a Porsche and regardless of age, there is something special in that
Porsche is a premium brand and as such the parts will be priced accordingly - no different to a Merc, Beemer or Audi
It is also not a daily driver but a project/hobby and will probably do no more than 2000 miles a year.

CLIFFWILKINS · Jan 30, 2016

If you are looking to buy an older Boxster the best advice is to go for the latest lowest mileage with a history your budget can stretch to 2003 onwards is better it has a glass back window.
Either model 2.7 or 3.2 are fine but if it means a newer better car I would advise 2.7 they have a sweet engine plenty fast enough more economical.
Best advice ever if you find a car get it checked out either OPC or a reputable Porsche specialist a couple of hundred pounds on a check could save you lots of heartache and money in the long run.
Usual problems are front rads and A/C condensers, rusted inside discs worn suspension.
Rear main oil seals can leak worse problems are bore scoring and intermediate shafts you can never tell if and when the intermediate shaft will go with any amount of checks.
You can have a bore scope on the bores.
Above problems can affect all gen 1 engines Boxster Cayman 996 and early 997s.
If budget allows go for the gen 2 dfi engine.
Hope that helps.
Cliff.

krazy_kameleon · Jan 30, 2016

Thanks Cliff [

]

chrishak · Jan 30, 2016

Saying 'don't' is a bit extreme, but I would say that because I 'did'! Better to advise to enter into the search with both eyes open and be prepared to spend some money if necessary.
I came out of retirement last June and needed a daily driver. I already own a Carrera 3.2 and my wife uses the family car for work so always hankering after a 2nd Porsche, I now had a good reason to buy one, so I did.
As everything had happened so quickly, my search had to be brief and having seen an absolute dog (advertised as 'much better than most at this price'), I bought the 2nd car I viewed - and haven't regretted it for a second.
It's a very early 3.2 and had 80,000 miles on the clock when I bought it. The body is excellent, the paint all original. Yes, there are one or two scratches but it responded very well to a session with a clay bar.
The day after I bought it, my local OPC had a customer clinic so I took it it to discover the worse...er the aircon condensors were shot (it's a convertable, who cares?) and there was some surface corrosion on a couple of brake pipes and one or two other minor issues. Basically, I had bought a very sound, 160mph, 60mph in 5.5 secs., 30mpg, sweet handling Porsche that sounds awsome (and that's coming from a died in the wool air-cooled man)....for £4500. Result!
Yes, I've spent about £1400 since then on servicing, a new MAF sensor and a coolant expansion tank, but I've also added 13,000 miles to its mileage - in 7 months!
IMS? It crosses my mind on EVERY journey, but doesn't worry me - if the engine is wrecked, I'll sell it as a non-runner for £1500 ish, and I've lost £3000 - how much would you lose in depreciation in one year on a new Kia?
By the way, regarding the advice to go for a 2003 model, yes you'd get a glass window (mine's milky and a PITA when reversing), but you also get an inferior IMS bearing which is more likely to fail (but still highly UN-likely).
I love it.

krazy_kameleon · Jan 30, 2016

Now that sounds a little more encouraging... thanks

MJB · Jan 30, 2016

MrDemon said:
Don't is my advice.

16 year old cars are not nice things as people don't want to spend money on them.

a refresh would cost more than the car is worth if all the main items have not been done.

And when looking at £6k cars people don't have the money to spend another £10k on them, so they just get worse and worse and cheaper and cheaper.
with a major OPC service costing £1k can you see owners of £6k cars spending even on a service ! it will be a cheap oil change down at quick fit.
they are NOT £6k cars to look after they are £45k cars and the parts that go with the Porsche brand cost mega money.

Think I would be looking at a Honda S2000 or something with that amount to spend.

The above can be true but it is not always the case. There are quite a few Boxsters of this age in the Club that are still maintained correctly regardless of their relatively low value and these can be seen at our events. If a car of this age has been correctly maintained it will actually have had many of the problems addressed that are still to befall some younger models and for some time the under-maintained older cars have been vanishing from the roads, meaning that many of the more dubious cars are already no longer around.

You are right to stress that a £45000 car will always be that in relation to its running costs but I would always say that maintenance (correct maintenance, not just stamps in a book) is more important than low mileage. Aside from infrequent use bringing its own problems many low mileage cars are not seen as needing as much attention, which is not necessarily the case.

Chappelle · Jan 31, 2016

Totally agree with MJB. Buy on condition and look for loads of paperwork. Great advice to get a specialist to inspect it. Buying from a club member is sound advice too as cars are likely to be cherished. If it's been with the last owner for some time all the better.

My car is 11 this year and I hope it'll be every bit as good in another 5!

MrDemon · Jan 31, 2016

the list is massive on what to check though, people are happy with a 2000 plate car which has all org bush's and shocks, but I am not, if you drove one back to back with a new car 90% of these so called looked after ones would feel loose, just people don't notice as the decline is slow. I can tell even a 4 year old car vs a brand spanker when driven.

I made a list on what should be changed on a 10 year old car and it's quite a shock the cost, a 16 year old car, as I say, I would not touch one my self unless the parts spend file was massive.

most stuff is shot at 5 years and 60k miles, so I would want to see bills for 15k at least spent on a old car.

the issue is an old boxster done up has no extra value, where as a 964 for 20k if you spend 25k on it IS worth 60k so you get the value back you spend on it and then some.

A boxster seems to have a £6k value and that's that even if it had all new parts, so you gen don't find people throwing £15k at one, as I stated in my 1st post "they just get worse and worse and cheaper and cheaper" :-(

krazy_kameleon · Jan 31, 2016

I agree with you on the ROI part.
I found that on my 356. Whatever I spent just added to the value and then some!

Although having said that, 20 years back a 911SC was had for next to nothing as it wasn't a classic at all and no one wanted to spend any money on them. Another was the ugly sister of the 911, the 912. They were so cheap I had a mate stick a rotary engine in one! Times have changed and these are now classics. Even the 944 now sees some decent respect.

20 years from now we may just be kicking ourselves over how we sneered at a Boxster 3.2S at £6k. Dare I say even a Cayenne?

Bottom line is a Porsche is and always will be just that, a Porsche. A mid-mounted roadster even more so?

I guess it depends on what you have in mind. For someone who is looking for a cheap, fun car for the weekend, thier money will be better spent on a Mazda Miata or Honda S2000. I will probably keep my car forever so I don't really care what I spend on maintenance if I am going to get my use out of it.

I just don't want to spend 6-8k in the first month or so fixing up other neglect

Thanks again for the viewpoints everyone

MJB · Jan 31, 2016

Oh well, at least we’ve now definitively established that most Porsches are unroadworthy wrecks after five years and utterly beyond redemption. It’s hard to see how any of the models that are now regarded as classics have survived to the present day, especially given that the older cars were intrinsically far less durable even if well looked-after.

How have all those ratty old Porsches stayed around for so long? Perhaps it was because people were prepared to spend amounts on them that were at one time disproportionate to their value. Whatever has been spent on them, I bet they still don’t drive like a brand new Porsche either, but then perhaps that’s not the car that their owners ever wanted. Of course, the secret is to keep on top of things as you go along, as it’s always cheaper to do this than to try and bring a car back from the brink.

Surprisingly, people own Porsches for different reasons and from different standpoints, although I’m sure that the view that only a brand new car is worthwhile is a perfectly valid one. Yes, Boxsters may get cheaper and cheaper but they don’t all[/i] get correspondingly worse and worse. Older cars are not new cars and vice versa but each has their respective charms.

Ivor · Jan 31, 2016

I have a 2003 Boxster 2.7 and love it. It is fast enough, makes all the right noises and grips so well! My advice is to get the best service documented example you can find as they do like TLC and you don't necessarily find that from a string of Kwik Fit dealers. If you can find a good example, you won't regret it.

chrishak · Jan 31, 2016

MJB said:
Oh well, at least we’ve now definitively established that most Porsches are unroadworthy wrecks after five years and utterly beyond redemption. It’s hard to see how any of the models that are now regarded as classics have survived to the present day, especially given that the older cars were intrinsically far less durable even if well looked-after.

How have all those ratty old Porsches stayed around for so long? Perhaps it was because people were prepared to spend amounts on them that were at one time disproportionate to their value. Whatever has been spent on them, I bet they still don’t drive like a brand new Porsche either, but then perhaps that’s not the car that their owners ever wanted. Of course, the secret is to keep on top of things as you go along, as it’s always cheaper to do this than to try and bring a car back from the brink.

Surprisingly, people own Porsches for different reasons and from different standpoints, although I’m sure that the view that only a brand new car is worthwhile is a perfectly valid one. Yes, Boxsters may get cheaper and cheaper but they don’t all get correspondingly worse and worse. Older cars are not new cars and vice versa but each has their respective charms.

?????????????

wibble · Jan 31, 2016

MrDemon said:
Don't is my advice.

16 year old cars are not nice things as people don't want to spend money on them.

Think I would be looking at a Honda S2000 or something with that amount to spend.

I doubt a 1999 S2000 is any different with poor maintenance and costs. An early Boxster is a fabulous drivers car. Yes, values are rock bottom, but that's the appeal to me - there again I am not afraid to use a spanner.

The early Boxster will eventually rise in value. It may take another 10 years, but it will rise. The new flat 4 turbo engine may even make the flat 6 a taste of the good old days. Do your homework and you will not regret it.

chrishak · Jan 31, 2016

I know where I went wrong, I paid £4500 for a Boxster that by all accounts should have been scrapped, when I should have stretched my budget a tad to £35,000 for a year old 'minter', as Quentin W would say.
Problem is, that would also now be a worthless wreck as I would have trebled the mileage, so it's off to the scrap yard again. The search begins for a £40,000 minter....
??????

Boxstercol · Feb 4, 2016

I agree with some of the above.

Had my 987 for coming up 3 years, it replaced a 986 which got written off in a non fault accident after 3 months of ownership. For me it's a weekend type car with occasional use during the week. It replaced a Eunos Roadster (Japanese imported MX5) which was a fun car but not on the level of the Boxster.

Running costs are huge in relation to the MX5 - tyres / brakes / servicing. Pretty much everything that has the word Porsche associated with it results in further cost, but that's just the nature of the beast.

I don't necessarily agree with buy the lowest mileage one you can. In my experience when I was looking for a 986 & then a replacement to my written off 986, most low mileage cars I viewed had skipped services / maintenance as owners basically didn't seem to want to spend the money on them as they thought that jobs could wait if they're only doing 2k per annum. Also, these cars do not like to be stood up without use - there is a train if though that suggests 'garage queen' Boxsters are more prone to IMS issues & RMS leaks (as seals dry out).

My advice would always be buy on condition. Whether the car has done 40k or 80k, look for condition every time plus a thorough service history. 987's have a 2 year / 20k service interval. A caring owner who looks after his car will get the oil & filter changed annually regardless.

Some of the things to look out for:
- Brake disc corrosion on inner faces, could result in changing discs & pads - caused by lack of use / not drying brakes off after washing etc
- Air con condensers
- Brake line corrosion
- Tyres - dependent upon size could cost up to £1k fir premium brands
- Corroded exhaust brackets
- RMS leaks - however this could be the IMS seal leaking, only way to find out is by dropping the box
- Broken springs quite common on outer roads
- Squeak / creak over rough surfaces could be suspension needing a refresh, normally the longitudinal arms or coffin arms
- water ingress into the cabin caused by blocked drains - can end up frying the alarm ECU under passenger seat
- water pumps tend to fail at circa 60k miles

Hope this helps.

MrDemon · Feb 5, 2016

MJB said:
. It’s hard to see how any of the models that are now regarded as classics have survived to the present day, especially given that the older cars were intrinsically far less durable even if well looked-after.

a restore on a old classic will cost you about £60k , so it's not hard to see how they have lasted at all and why even a basic 911 T will cost you £120k done up now.