Boxster S - Starting Problems (Again)

[TimEwins]

Hi All

I've been on here before asking about batteries, and starting problems, but they all went away when I bought a new battery 9months ago.

Well I've done it again :0(

Went away on holiday, and came back to a flat battery. The car had been standing for approx 6 weeks. The battery was so flat the Alarm was malfunctioning.

For those that haven't experienced this, its 'hell on earth' :0( When the battery is low, the alarm siren (battery backed up) thinks the battery has been disconnected and randomly sets of the siren, usually about 4-00am in the morning :0( Another strange behaviour is that the rear spoiler extends for no readily apparent reason :0(

Ok the battery needed charging, which I did, and it set the alarm off (sorry, turning on the ignition, and disconnecting the battery didn't work. There is no way of shutting this siren off other than disconnecting it from the car and hiding it in a towel (official Porsche Mechanic advise).

I know we don't want the car stolen, but PLEASE give me a way (the owner) of disabling the darn thing !

I worked from home today to charge up the battery, and hopefully the siren battery as well (so it won't keep going off). I had it on charge for about 8 hours, and the charger said that the battery was charged.

However when I turned the ignition over ... nothing. I get all lights, the fuel pump fires, but I get no engine turn over.

I called my Porsche Mechanic friend, and he couldn't work out why either, suggested fuses, some relay in the back. He's coming back with some borrowed diagnostic equipment at the weekend, perhaps this will tell.

Any ideas? Anyone else have electrical problems like me?

My old 29 year old 924 is less of a problem than the Boxster :0(

One thing worth mentioning, when the battery goes flat, on two occasions the 'air bag' warning light has come on (and subsequently gone off when fully charged). Is there a safety feature where the engine is immobilised if the bag fails or am I looking too much into Porsche's safety features.

At the moment its no fun ... and the neighbours don't appreciate the dawn siren courus

Tim

 

[browser]

Tim
I only know there is a WARNNG in the handbook about leaving Boxsters for more than five days, as they MUST be connected to a battery (trickle) charger in your garage to keep the battery & car electric's working correctly, I agree this is an issue I never had on my 16 yrs with a 944 Turbo - but 6 weeks was a bit risky on any car, not sure if the handbook will help with your current position but hope diagnostic's can re set.
best of luck

 

[Mark_Bennett]

It's a shame you can't garage it Tim. Isn't there a way you can run a battery conditioner to the car when you are not using it for few weeks?

You might want to give Bryn Owen a call (number in PorscheFile) and see if he knows why there is no cranking of the starter (the contacts are tight on the terminals aren't they - I know you know a bad contact won't generate the power needed, but anyone else reading this might not).

 

[TimEwins]

Hi John

Handbook is useless. It doesn't even tell you how to disconnect the battery without setting the alarm off.

In fact it says something along the lines of when the battery is disconnected the alarm will be switched off, which is not true.

Unfortunatley I can't put it on a trickle charger as its on the driveway.

Once fixed I am going to buy a decent bulk charger (inteligent but a bit more beef than the trickles) and then make sure it stays charged up .... unfortunatley with wind, rain and snow these tasks go by the wayside.

I'll keep this therad posted with any developments.

 

[TimEwins]

Hi Mark

Standing on the driveway yesterday, the siren going off (numb ear) with my dinner half dished up on the table, in the rain .... I wished I could garage it too :0(

It would be a good add on to have a power socket on the outside of the car somewhere, a bit 'hybrid' if you like.

The only way in is the door, or the boot that I know of, and none of these really offer a long time solution.

The solution is really to use the car more often. I need to set a regime of runing it, or taking it out often.

My mechanic friend works for the local dealer, and he has access to all the various testers, etc which he is helping me out with (earning his very large crate of beer for christmas). He, or the people he works with should be able to work out what the problem is, I hope.

Is there are relay of fuse that controls the starter motor ?

Thanks for the name to call, I'll try and remember to call.

Contacts are good on the battery that I recall. It doesn't even try to crank, nothing happens at all.

Do trackers take a lot of power when idle?

 

[Peter_Bull]

Why not try one of the trickle chargers that work off UV light - its sits on the dash and plugs in th cigar lighter. Could be the sollution you are looking for. Look >HERE<

 

[London987]

you can buy a battery bypass thing that fit on to the battery terminals and have a big red/green key or screw down thing, like the cut of switches you see on racing cars. Costs about a tenner to buy the switch, you can fit it yourself and it cuts ALL power from the battery. You can leave it for weeks like that - not sure what you can do about the alarm battery though or the tracker, but it will buy you a couple of extra weeks. I have one standard in my other car - granted not the same electrical drain as these cars but i have been able to leave it for 6 months plus without problems.

You'd need to check if the switch fits under all the plastic covers in the Porsche otherwise you can get the racing style ones fitted anywhere you like - if you don't mind a hole or two.

 

[Mark_Bennett]

Good idea, but I'm pretty sure the alarm will just go off. And if the power is cut to the tracker, that will presumably a) trigger an alert, and b) the thing won't be trackable (so your insurance is invalid if the car gets stolen).[]

 

[TimEwins]

Thanks for the ongoing help Guys.

The Solar Charger looks interesting

Tim

 

[TimEwins]

Update

I bought a new charger .... a good bulk charger that also acts as a trickle charger and has battery reconditioning features.

I put it on the battery last night, it said it was 40% full ... perhaps this is too low to crank the engine ?

Charged up the battery ... it now says 100% charge .... but not on maintenance charge yet ... will put it back on charge when not raining again.

Hopefully the engine might start then?

Good charger .... I recommend it

Ring RSC16

http://www.ringautomotive.co.uk/product_detail.asp?prod=1372

 

[bryno]

Tim, I was just wondering why your battery was going flat so quickly, apart from the 6 week trip with the car unattended I reckon a Boxster with a good battery should be able to start after a month lying idle. Are you sure that your boot, bonnet and interior lights go out when you close everything and lock up the car? Just a thought.
As far as the "Bulk Charger " you have bought goes it may charge the battery quickly but it won't do anything for battery life and if this current battery isn't already shagged it soon will be using one of thse devices frequently.
Unfortunately you don't seem to be in a position to use an intelligent battery maintainer other than a solar powered one which sounds like a good idea for you. If the car starts then good, if it does not after replacing the battery you will need a garage with diagnostics as the reason for failure to turn the engine could be a many.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

I reckon a Boxster with a good battery should be able to start after a month lying idle.

Isn't that a bit optimistic? [8|]

There's a reason why the long-term paking guys at airports wheel boosters around all day? My 944 has the dubious benefit of two after-market alarms and it's factory immobiliser, and it drains a (new) battery in a fortnight or so. It sits outside, and it's not really feasible to run cables over the drive to keep a trickle charger on. I just keep a booster pack, from Screwfix, to give it enough to start.

I'd have thought that a Boxster would have even more electronics running in the background, and even with more modern battery technology it wouldn't sit for a month?

 

[Black80XSA]

A healthy battery should restart a Boxster after a month of non-use - the cars electonics go into a vital systems only status after 5 days, ie clock, alarm etc but no power to central locking etc etc.

Solar charger - only any good if your ciggy lighter is on with the ignition off, and it doesn't shut down after 5 days. They typically generate about 800mA which is enough to keep up with battery drain from an alarm system, but may struggle for an alarm and a tracker. It will help of course.

If you can't use the car more often then i suggest you fit a external power socket to the house and buy a battery conditioner - the CTEK3600 is a good one, as is the one in Lidl presently for £13. (i have both and they work exactly the same). Both are only rated dust proof, not water tightness but the control unit could be wrapped up in a plastic bag and left on top of a front wheel under the arch to keep the weather out. Or if you use the battery croc clips then the unit would be in the front boot with only the mains lead coming out of the bonnet to the mains socket.

 

[TimEwins]

Thanks again guys

Yes ... I know you shouldn't charge a battery at 16A if you expect it to last! 16A is the 'emergency' charge method. Normal is 2A.

There is no way the battery is going to last a month, especially in these winter conditions. I know it shuts down to save power, but I assume the tracker is still active?

There is the possibility that the battery was duff from Porsche, an avenue I have yet to pursue.

I have a ctek charger on my 924 (smaller car IN the garage) and I agree, its VERY good. 924 always has a fully charged battery (but no MOT, but thats another issue).

I bought the bulk charger because my old charger was (I worked out) over 15 years old (a Halfords one at that).

I will be trying to start the car tomorrow, I will report back.

Another solution I was considering was to buy another battery, and keep it charged up inside the garage and use it to jump start the car.

OR I need to use it more.

I am a low mileage driver, not as low as some !

Thanks again for thne advice

Cheers

Tim

Ooops ... forgot to add that as far as I am aware, there are no lights left on, etc. However I am not ruling out that there is a power drain somewhere :0(

 

[Mark_Bennett]

I know it shuts down to save power, but I assume the tracker is still active?

You betcha....
[&o]

 

[Glyn]

Cant understand why a Porsche mechanic cannot nail the problem. unless he is not a mechanic but someone who works for the dealership - many sales staff and admin grades like to think they know a thing or two just because they work there - a sort of reflected glory thing.

The Boxster should be able to stand well beyond a month and start fine, you clearly have more than one issue.
Have you had the battery tested? You may have an internal short of the battery in which cells are dead- this in turn reduces the capacity of the battery and prevents proper charging up - even new batteries can go bad - have the battery checked on a heavy discharge tester - any tyre service place will be able to do this.

Secondly, use a DC clamp meter to test the current draw when everything is turned off - 40 milliamps is max. The clamp meter just has a "C" type jaw that you put around the positive cable from the battery - no disconection of the battery - the meter will tell you how many milliamps the systems are drawing - If over 40 start disconecting fuses - one at a time and check the meter readings - this will nail which circuit is drawing too much.


No engine turn over - This could be the ignition switch - as you turn to the start position the switch sends a 12 volt signal to the starter solenoid to engage the starter.

The solenoid itself could have failed and therefore the starter motor will not power up

Heavy current draw can be the alternator - if one of the diode packs have failed, Diodes only allow current to flow in one direction - when a diode pack fails the alternator draws current - quite a lot - it now thinks its an electric motor and trys to turn - obviously it cant because the polyrib belt prevents this.


Your problems are faults - you do not need trickle or any other type of charger, with no faults the boxster will last a couple of months without use and still start, in cold weather battery capacity diminishes quicker and even a fully charged battery will go flat even if its totally diconected in about 6 months so it makes sense to take some precautions if the car is only used once in a while

The Boxster has three stages to save battery power, After use the power draw is up to 40 Milliamps though typically it is no where near this amount, after 15 minutes or so there is a reduction as the instrument panel lights extinguish, then a little later the orientation lights are switched off then after 5 days sleep mode - the current draw at this stage is absolutely minimal.

Good luck

 

[Mark_Bennett]

Glyn,

Useful info. Any idea how much the Tracker draws?

 

[TimEwins]

Hi Guys

The car is started :0)

Not too sure about the battery, the verdict is still out on that one.

This morning the battery seeemed dead again, but a quick charge brought it up to 100% again. Perhaps I am not using this charger correctly on its status function ?

Anyway, my Porsche Man came over, and the car started OK. So we did the diagnostics. We measured the current draw from the battery. Initially it was lots about 1A, and after about 20mins it dropped to about 150mA, where it has stayed.

I am told that this is likely as the siren is taking more current than it should at the moment and also the tracker backup battery needs charging too (ie these circuits are being charged from the main battery).

I realise that this standby current is too high (I have been told more like 75mA) but at the moment with the tracker, etc this is to be expected.

I have been told to use the car ... and check the current again in a week or two's time.

In the meantime I will pursue the solar charger.

Cheers
Tim

 

[berty987]

The batteries in the battery backed siren are not everlasting , so maybe its time to get a new siren . I think these are about 40 pounds new , so hopefully not going to break the bank. Certainly on the 987 , if the key is in the ignition when you disconnect the battery , the siren is deactivated , so it will not sound. If the battery in the siren has passed its best its possible its drawing more current than it should.
The battery backed siren is made by Hamilton Palmer here in the Uk. You could try giving them a call to ask for some guidance on troubleshooting.

 

[TimEwins]

Thanks for the info on the Siren.

Took the car out for a good 100mile spin. Everything seemed OK.

Next morning .... alarm went off at 9-00am. Battery back to 20% .... certainly looks like the battery is dead. Event 150mA won't kill a battery overnight. Now pursuing a battery claim with Porsche. Once we know the battery is good we can pursue any current drain problem,

My siren has now been removed from the car. If the alarm does malfunction at least it will be silent. The rest of the alarm, imobiliser, tracker is still active.

More news ...coming soon.

Found out yesterday that the solar chargers we spoke about are just a current source. Apparently they don't work like ctek chargers. They didn't come recommended, but the man did work for ctek :0) (Day out at the Classic Car show, NEC)