Brake swop.??
- Thread starter Big Dave
- Start date
I'm not sure.
I'm assuming you have standard S2 callipers, as those first fitted on the 220 Turbo, not "medium blacks". This being the case they will have mounting ears on the back of the calliper so you bolt then from behind in the same way the original floating calliper is mounted.
An 88 Lux should have ali lower wishbones, and the later hub, so with 220 turbo discs, you might be in with a chance. I'm only saying "might" as Porsche have a nasty habit of changing components subtly and it isn't always easy to get a match or relationship even armed with PET. Generally all you can establish is how many alternative versions are available for the component you are looking at.
It does look like this might be a case of suck it and see.
I'm assuming you have standard S2 callipers, as those first fitted on the 220 Turbo, not "medium blacks". This being the case they will have mounting ears on the back of the calliper so you bolt then from behind in the same way the original floating calliper is mounted.
An 88 Lux should have ali lower wishbones, and the later hub, so with 220 turbo discs, you might be in with a chance. I'm only saying "might" as Porsche have a nasty habit of changing components subtly and it isn't always easy to get a match or relationship even armed with PET. Generally all you can establish is how many alternative versions are available for the component you are looking at.
It does look like this might be a case of suck it and see.
Peter Empson
PCGB Member
Whilst I've had bigger calipers fitted I'm afraid I'm not entirely sure what he'd need to go with the 220T ones. The 993/250T ones we used at the front required new hubs bearings etc although these weren't too expensive when bought second hand. The rear didn't need any changes though and 968 calipers fitted fine.
However personally I'd strongly recommend he just has the standard calipers checked over to ensure they're working properly and get some proper pads fitted (I use Porterfields) and ensure the hoses and fluid are both good.
Even at very hard braking tracks I found it impossible to get fade, and the feel was great with a really solid pedal - better than with the larger calipers, plus you have lower mass and don't need to fit bigger wheels. With good pads I was comfortably out braking much lighter cars like Elises with no problems for many laps at a time.
I only upgraded as I was doing the suspension and knew that I'd be fitting a bigger engine in the near future.
Best regards,
Peter.
However personally I'd strongly recommend he just has the standard calipers checked over to ensure they're working properly and get some proper pads fitted (I use Porterfields) and ensure the hoses and fluid are both good.
Even at very hard braking tracks I found it impossible to get fade, and the feel was great with a really solid pedal - better than with the larger calipers, plus you have lower mass and don't need to fit bigger wheels. With good pads I was comfortably out braking much lighter cars like Elises with no problems for many laps at a time.
I only upgraded as I was doing the suspension and knew that I'd be fitting a bigger engine in the near future.
Best regards,
Peter.
sawood12
New member
I suspect you would need a caliper adapter as i'm pretty sure the hubs are different from a Lux to an S2/turbo. Even if the calipers can bolt to the hub they might be set at the wrong diameter due to difference disk diameters between the two.
Didn't the S2/turbo have a completely different lower wishbone set up to the Lux's using forged Alluminium wishbones instead of steel ones??
Didn't the S2/turbo have a completely different lower wishbone set up to the Lux's using forged Alluminium wishbones instead of steel ones??
Peter Empson
PCGB Member
Hi Scott,
I believe the later Lux's had the same wishbones, and it certianly wasn't something I remember having to buy for mine.
Best regards,
Peter.
I believe the later Lux's had the same wishbones, and it certianly wasn't something I remember having to buy for mine.
Best regards,
Peter.
Ok I've done a bit of research and I'm afraid it doesn't look good:-
Based on the 1988 product line
Wishbones, 4 types, 3 of which are post 87 (ali?), 1 of the 3 is M030/758 (Note: M758 is medium blacks without M030).
So you have one of two wishbones, neither of these are differentiated as Turbo so a 50/50 chance at the worst
Hubs 5 types, 3 post 87, 1 of which M030/758.
Again you have a 50/50 chance at worst.
Now the problem steering knuckle. The steering knuckle is the bit that the hub, strut, calliper and steering arm bolt to. If this is wrong you could end up with the wrong mounting for the calliper, it could be too far away, or off line. Also, you could end up with the steering balljoint being too close to the back of the disk.
There are 7 types of steering knuckle, 5 post 87, only one listed as 944/944S the others Turbo or M030/758.
Both the Lux and S have a floating calliper so it would look like they have a specific steering knuckle - the others are different so I guess Turbo/S2 callipers aren't going to fit.
The more I think about this the more likely they are not to fit. When we fitted M758 brakes (medium blacks) on Baby Wuf (Rick's 944S) we had the wrong radial mounts. This suggestes that the radial mounts for a Turbo and a Lux or S are obviously different - IIRC the distance between the calliper mounting bolts were different.
I summary - I don't think they will fit.
Based on the 1988 product line
Wishbones, 4 types, 3 of which are post 87 (ali?), 1 of the 3 is M030/758 (Note: M758 is medium blacks without M030).
So you have one of two wishbones, neither of these are differentiated as Turbo so a 50/50 chance at the worst
Hubs 5 types, 3 post 87, 1 of which M030/758.
Again you have a 50/50 chance at worst.
Now the problem steering knuckle. The steering knuckle is the bit that the hub, strut, calliper and steering arm bolt to. If this is wrong you could end up with the wrong mounting for the calliper, it could be too far away, or off line. Also, you could end up with the steering balljoint being too close to the back of the disk.
There are 7 types of steering knuckle, 5 post 87, only one listed as 944/944S the others Turbo or M030/758.
Both the Lux and S have a floating calliper so it would look like they have a specific steering knuckle - the others are different so I guess Turbo/S2 callipers aren't going to fit.
The more I think about this the more likely they are not to fit. When we fitted M758 brakes (medium blacks) on Baby Wuf (Rick's 944S) we had the wrong radial mounts. This suggestes that the radial mounts for a Turbo and a Lux or S are obviously different - IIRC the distance between the calliper mounting bolts were different.
I summary - I don't think they will fit.
][
sawood12
New member
Surely as long as you have 5-stud hubs then the disk should fit and the caliper can be fitted via caliper adapters. I know I can get caliper adapters for my non-M030 turbo to fit either medium blacks or big blacks (or reds), and i've seen big reds fitted to a vast array of Golf's and Audi's by using caliper adapters.
sawood12
New member
True and it will depend upon the disk caliper combination you want to use. Provided you use a matched disk/caliper set then the disk width shouldn't be an issue, and as long as the disk bell depth isn't so deep so that the disk is positioned too far inboard that it will cause fouling with suspension and steering links against the disk and caliper throughout the full suspention and steering movement I can't see an issue with using caliper adapters. I'm sure if you are looking to use turbo/s2 front brake calipers and disks you shouldn't really have an issue with using caliper adaptors.
Didn't Rick Cannell use medium blacks on his mini-Wuf Lux??
Didn't Rick Cannell use medium blacks on his mini-Wuf Lux??
frogisland
New member
It was myself that Dave was seeking info for - trying to determine if my old standard 968 front calipers will fit straight onto an '88 2.5 944 (with different discs). Will try to have a good look at the recipient car to see what is on there (hubs, spindles etc)
Was trying to aviod adaptors etc - might as well buy a used S2/968 hub/spindle/strut setup if necessary.
Thanks though for all the info, plenty to pnder over.
Was trying to aviod adaptors etc - might as well buy a used S2/968 hub/spindle/strut setup if necessary.
Thanks though for all the info, plenty to pnder over.
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