Bu66er!

[OllieW]

The RS is at Autofarm at the moment having a half cage installed as well as the mags refurbished as they are in need of a bit of TLC, and then the phone rang...

The wheels were being spun up to check their balance and they notice that both rears are buckled slightly and one of the fronts is buckled horizontally []

They are going to try and straighted the front one first as this is the worst one, and assuming this is successful they will then do the two rears. No promises were made and they cannot give me any indication if this will be successful or not.

So, if they are too buckled to fix, I have decided to upgrade to 18" BBS 3-piece Alloy wheels with gold centres (looks great with Guards Red)... Does anyone here run 18's on an RS or have any experience of these wheels or better still have a good set for sale?

Oh well lets see what else can go wrong today...

 

[lee fulford]

Hi Ollie...I run 18's but I do get alot of stick so be prepared.

Go for it...fill those arches

 

[OllieW]

Hi Lee

Thanks for the input, and I would like some more info if you don't mind...

Are you running the BBS 3 piece wheels or Speedlines and what are the sizes of the rims/tyres and the offsets needed so as not to foul on the RS bodywork or mechanicals.

Sorry for all the questions but I want to be as prepared as possible before I spend a lot of money on some new boots.

Cheers

Ollie

 

[jimmyslr]

I got some of the new aluminium (ie not mag centred, apparently stronger for similar weight) BBS 3 piece race wheels in November. They look jolly nice in silver, but pain to keep rims clean - I am not much of a polisher. Almost exactly 2 grand from BBS Motorsport direct. Not many second hand sets around and I have heard negative comments on second hand wheels cracking - you need to be confident in provenance and ex-race wheels will have seen a lot of curbs in their time.

I went for 17" to keep with the originality and in light of some of the threads regarding 18" putting extra strain on suspension, although whether this is a material issue seems to be of some debate. I did have to play around with spacers to get them to fit. The original mags have a scalloped inside face where they meet the hub; this allows them to work with wider spacers that bolt-on (as opposed to shims) to the original studs. The BBS have a flat inside face which does not work with those wider spacers. The options were new, longer studs or a thinner shim. I went latter.

James

 

[Yoda]

Hi Ollie. Did you notice the buckle while driving the car or are they only very slightly out of true? Are they deemed to be unfit for use now and what are the perceived risks?

I am just wondering how someone would be able to tell if their wheels were not taken off and examined.

Regards

 

[SimonExtreme]

Sorry to hear you bad news. You now need to keep your eyes open for a s/h set to put away for when you come to sell or just for show. I am sure that not having original wheels will become important and effect value, if it doesn't already. And don't put off buying the mags as the price will only rise.

As for the 18" verses 17" debate, this has been done a few times. 18" certainly do add to the strain on the car and can add to the unsprung weight (depending on wheel). This leads to more strain on both suspension and brakes. Offset against this is the potential for better handling. On this point peoplen are divided. I know that Autofarm think that the car handles better with 17" wheels. Some (Mel[]) point to the fact Cup cars had 18" wheels but I believe that was more to do with the availablity of suitable rubber than improved handling. 18" means less sidewall in the tyre and therefore a stiffer sidewall and this suits many cars, but not all. I suspect that having a little give in the sidewall on the fronts could be beneficial in helping intial understeer as it would give a slightly more progressive loading. However, I haven't enough experience of our cars to know one way or another so I am only guessing.

 

[OllieW]

Thanks for the input guys, I am still waiting to hear back from Autofarm as to the true state of them and if they can be straightened.

As for knowing about the wheels being out of true, there were no initial signs at all. No steering wheel wobble, no vibrations, no tramlining or pulling to left or right. In fact on the drive to Autofarm I kept thinking to myself how good the car felt and how true it drove on the road. Christ I even did Spa, the Ring and Donnington and never felt like the wheels had a problem.

If the worse comes to the worse and I cannot get them sorted I will get the 18" BBS 3-piece fitted and try to locate another set of mags just in case I have to sell the car in the future, but hopefully she is a keeper in which case I will live with the BBS.

My advice would be that if you have given your car some hammering over the past year or so get your wheels checked as I could not see any visible indications of having a problem.

Cheers

Ollie []

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

Just to stick my two penneth in, is it not better to leave well alone? If, as you say, the car drives brilliantly and there have been no problems arising from the wheels being buckled, is it not a riskier strategy to start attempting repairs than it would be to run them as they are. The simple engineering fact is that if you have something that's bent or buckled, trying to repair and by implication reverse the problem, only leads to a weakness or a fracture. This is only one man's opinion I know and I'm quite open to education, but all I'm seeing at the minute is a waste set of wheels and a rather big bill.

Regards

 

[Jamie Summers]

Ollie,
Bad luck on the mags - hope they can be straightened (even then I'd be tempted to put them in the garage and keep for resale). Whilst clearly not quite in the same league I discovered last year at Spa that my rear Cup 1s were both slightly buckled when I got Silverline to balance them up for me (I was getting a bit of steering wheel wobble from the fronts, which re-balancing solved). Whether this was something that I have managed to do to them myself or whether I bought them like that I don't know. Either way Silverline said that whilst it wasn't dangerous as such they recommended I replace the wheels. Since them I have completely failed to find a replacement set of genuine Cup 1s, so I have been continuing to use the bent wheels both on road and track - I certainly can't feel anything that suggests something is wonky. There doesn't seem to be any undue wear on bearings or cv joints, so I guess I will continue to use them until I find some new ones at an acceptable price. Clearly it's not ideal, but quite a lot can be done to sort a slightly out of true wheel through judicious use of rim weights, so at least it remains useable. Good luck !

Jamie

 

[lee fulford]

ORIGINAL: OllieW

Hi Lee

Thanks for the input, and I would like some more info if you don't mind...

Are you running the BBS 3 piece wheels or Speedlines and what are the sizes of the rims/tyres and the offsets needed so as not to foul on the RS bodywork or mechanicals.

Sorry for all the questions but I want to be as prepared as possible before I spend a lot of money on some new boots.

Cheers

Ollie

Ollie

I have the Speedline Porsche 3 piece as fitted to the 93 cup cars, These wheels are far rarer than the std mags and I have been searching for a spare set for a while. Don't think I've ever seen another set let alone any for sale. These wheels were made specifically for the 964 race cars and only available to the Motorsport division.

The rears are 9.5" with 265/35 tyres and the fronts are 8" I think with 225/30? from my poor memory. Don't know about offsets...sorry. They are a perfect fit and need no spacers.

As someone stated, this has been a subject of much debate previously but unless you drive on the curb/rumble strips all day I reckon stresses and strains on particular suspension items is bol x. Has for example the 993 got radially different suspension?

Edited to say I have the std mags, before someone says it knocks £10,000 of the value....Not that the car's going anywhere.[]

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: SimonExtreme

On this point people are divided. I know that Autofarm think that the car handles better with 17" wheels. Some (Mel[]) point to the fact Cup cars had 18" wheels but I believe that was more to do with the availablity of suitable rubber than improved handling. 18" means less sidewall in the tyre and therefore a stiffer sidewall and this suits many cars, but not all. I suspect that having a little give in the sidewall on the fronts could be beneficial in helping intial understeer as it would give a slightly more progressive loading.

Just as a data point, I used to help a team racing 3 Cup Cars and when we switched to 18s, we knocked between 1 and 2 seconds a lap off at the different tracks we used. We had some handy drivers including Greg Murphy, who may be familiar to anyone who has seen the Aussie V8 Supercars. When the first 18 inch slicks arrived, there were not enough to go around and there was nearly a fist fight over who got to use them.

True, this isn't road cars, but there is no doubt that 18s are quicker. To say the car handles better on 17s is a rather imprecise and vague statement. I wonder what Autofarm means? Sure ain't faster.

 

[carreraboy]

2nd generation 964 Cup Cars rode 18"..............

 

[Yoda]

I'm with Oliver and Jamie - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

On the other hand ............ if you need someone to clear the junk mag wheels from your house, I'll do it for £50.

 

[OllieW]

Is it safe to say then that there would be no issues with running 18's on a std RS Lightweight, mainly road use with about three trackdays a year, or are we suggesting that running 18's places extra strain on hubs, mounts etc and should only be used when it is a racecar that gets rebuilt practically every race?

I am still hoping that Autofarm come back to me and tell me that they have sorted the rims and they will be fine, but then again I've possibly got more chance of winning the Euromillions rollover [], in which case I don't need to worry so much.

 

[OllieW]

Thanks for the generous offer Yoda and you will be the first person I call should I find a set of junk mags returning from Oxford []

 

[SimonExtreme]

ORIGINAL: Richard Bernau
Just as a data point, I used to help a team racing 3 Cup Cars and when we switched to 18s, we knocked between 1 and 2 seconds a lap off at the different tracks we used. We had some handy drivers including Greg Murphy, who may be familiar to anyone who has seen the Aussie V8 Supercars. When the first 18 inch slicks arrived, there were not enough to go around and there was nearly a fist fight over who got to use them.

I know that is the case but I suspect that the reason for the difference in times was better tyres, rather than the 18" wheels. My understanding is that the right compound was available in 18", because they were being used for 2 other championships as well. The tyre supplier didn't want to make them in 17", so the wheels were changed.

Have you any information on the tyres that can support or otherwise., that proposition?

 

[jason]

ORIGINAL: OllieW

The RS is at Autofarm at the moment having a half cage installed as well as the mags refurbished as they are in need of a bit of TLC, and then the phone rang...

The wheels were being spun up to check their balance and they notice that both rears are buckled slightly and one of the fronts is buckled horizontally []

They are going to try and straighted the front one first as this is the worst one, and assuming this is successful they will then do the two rears. No promises were made and they cannot give me any indication if this will be successful or not.

So, if they are too buckled to fix, I have decided to upgrade to 18" BBS 3-piece Alloy wheels with gold centres (looks great with Guards Red)... Does anyone here run 18's on an RS or have any experience of these wheels or better still have a good set for sale?

Oh well lets see what else can go wrong today...

Ollie,

You think you've got problems....speak to Chris at GCR and ask him what the hell my bill is up to...!!!!!![][][][]

Paul Scutt who used to post on this forum had them on his 964RS CS and they looked great and I believe he was well impressed with the handling - he had them up for sale at one point after he sold the car - I've still got his details if you want to give him a try. Email me if you want his details Ollie.

Think the cage is going to have to wait for me now....about 20 years! Let me know when you get yours back though....

J

 

[OllieW]

Hi Jason

Chris mentioned that there was a bit of an oil leak on the engine last time I popped in to see him...

I guess that little oil leak is not so little! What's being done to it?

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: SimonExtreme

ORIGINAL: Richard Bernau
Just as a data point, I used to help a team racing 3 Cup Cars and when we switched to 18s, we knocked between 1 and 2 seconds a lap off at the different tracks we used. We had some handy drivers including Greg Murphy, who may be familiar to anyone who has seen the Aussie V8 Supercars. When the first 18 inch slicks arrived, there were not enough to go around and there was nearly a fist fight over who got to use them.

I know that is the case but I suspect that the reason for the difference in times was better tyres, rather than the 18" wheels. My understanding is that the right compound was available in 18", because they were being used for 2 other championships as well. The tyre supplier didn't want to make them in 17", so the wheels were changed.

Have you any information on the tyres that can support or otherwise., that proposition?

Yep, same compound Pirelli slicks on 17s and 18s IIRC. This was in NZ not Europe, so we were not tied to a manufacturer who sponsored a series.

 

[jason]

ORIGINAL: OllieW

Hi Jason

Chris mentioned that there was a bit of an oil leak on the engine last time I popped in to see him...

I guess that little oil leak is not so little! What's being done to it?

He can't find any damage or anything wrong at all - so he's putting it all back together as it was (albeit with all new bolts/nuts/some pipes/a few seals etc) - he thinks it may have just been a little weepage because the car has done so few miles in the last few years and I've started to drive it like it should be! Whatever, at £2.5k+ for an engine that had nothing too much wrong with it I am expecting it to look brand spanking new with the cleanest engine bay you've ever seen and the car to be very ruddy quick...

Total bill after all new SRF, pagid blues, momo wheel etc etc is going to be major so looks like cage and harness may have to wait.....and wait......and wait.....although we are looking at possibility of new bar across the existing part cage it has.

Goes off to cry....[&o]