Buying advice
- Thread starter skendrick
- Start date
Dave Wilkinson
New member
A very good C2 or C4 RHD Coupe Prices seems to range from a little over £10K to as much as £16K at the moment LHD cars are £2K or £3K less for equivalent condition. There seem plenty about on Pistonheads (56 at the moment at http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?s=556 and dealers like 911 Virgin and Eporsch usually have a few 964s.
Good luck in the search. Don't forget to get a decent PPI when you find a good candidate.
Regards
Dave
Steve,
My car is for sale at the kind of price you are looking at. I wouldn't call it exactly typical of what's out there, but if you're looking for something a bit more interesting ................
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/100964.htm
Jamie
My car is for sale at the kind of price you are looking at. I wouldn't call it exactly typical of what's out there, but if you're looking for something a bit more interesting ................
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/100964.htm
Jamie
Gordon Attar
New member
For around £15k you should have plenty of choice, just take your time inspect a few cars to get an idea of what to expect for your money.
Look at anything upto maybe £17k which will cover 90% plus of whats out there, Go for condition of vehicle unless you have plenty of time to wait on your perfect colour combo. Metallic colours and dark interiors are better for residuals and interior wear. Presumably you have got a buyers guide if not ask on here or join the 964 group on Yahoo and they will advise.
What ever you decide on you must get it inspected by an Inde who knows his 964's.
Have fun and it will be a completely different experience to the 944, its the route I went.
Look at anything upto maybe £17k which will cover 90% plus of whats out there, Go for condition of vehicle unless you have plenty of time to wait on your perfect colour combo. Metallic colours and dark interiors are better for residuals and interior wear. Presumably you have got a buyers guide if not ask on here or join the 964 group on Yahoo and they will advise.
What ever you decide on you must get it inspected by an Inde who knows his 964's.
Have fun and it will be a completely different experience to the 944, its the route I went.
Having just bought one I'd say it depends what you want. I was pretty much prepared to spend up to £15k or maybe even more if necessary (Jamie I very, very nearly contacted you about yours more than once, but ultimately I wanted one more standard as I have a bucket seats and not much else Porsche already). Ultimately I spent a lot less and got a car that I am very happy with.
A PPI is a good idea, but in my experience you don't have time. If a car is attractively priced and "feels" like a good one somebody will buy it out from under you while you are arranging a PPI; it happened to me twice and third time I just took a chance. As it happens when I got it inspected post-purchase it was pretty much as I expected.
In terms of what to look for there seems to be a hike in price for the later cars with head gasket rings (and teardrops). Red and white are not the best colours to sell, but apart from that I think it's personal choice. I wanted a coupe with manual gears and couldn't really decide between C2 and C4 so I considered both. Also I really like the very light (and excellent condition) interior in mine. I like for the way it looks and also as being a UK car it has no air-con so it shouldn't get so hot. I actually think black interiors look tired much more quickly than light ones personally, and I don't agree light ones get shabby; my current 944 had linen leather and it cleaned up a treat with Liquid Leather. On the subject of air-con I found 2 RHD cars with it and on further investigation they were both imports.
Buy Adrian Streathers book.
A PPI is a good idea, but in my experience you don't have time. If a car is attractively priced and "feels" like a good one somebody will buy it out from under you while you are arranging a PPI; it happened to me twice and third time I just took a chance. As it happens when I got it inspected post-purchase it was pretty much as I expected.
In terms of what to look for there seems to be a hike in price for the later cars with head gasket rings (and teardrops). Red and white are not the best colours to sell, but apart from that I think it's personal choice. I wanted a coupe with manual gears and couldn't really decide between C2 and C4 so I considered both. Also I really like the very light (and excellent condition) interior in mine. I like for the way it looks and also as being a UK car it has no air-con so it shouldn't get so hot. I actually think black interiors look tired much more quickly than light ones personally, and I don't agree light ones get shabby; my current 944 had linen leather and it cleaned up a treat with Liquid Leather. On the subject of air-con I found 2 RHD cars with it and on further investigation they were both imports.
Buy Adrian Streathers book.
skendrick
New member
Thanks adrian your car is the colour I like but I'm after an original without the mods (helps keep the insurance down).
Blue or grey exterior with grey leather interior is what i'm after but if the car is right then none of that matters. My 944 has the half leather cream interior and I like the way it gives a feeling of space.
I'm sure if you have a C2 your bound to say it's better than the C4 (and visa vera), I have studied the articals about which is better but any independant thoughts out there. I would like a C4 but not fussed if a good C2 comes along.
Blue or grey exterior with grey leather interior is what i'm after but if the car is right then none of that matters. My 944 has the half leather cream interior and I like the way it gives a feeling of space.
I'm sure if you have a C2 your bound to say it's better than the C4 (and visa vera), I have studied the articals about which is better but any independant thoughts out there. I would like a C4 but not fussed if a good C2 comes along.
38F3E1
PCGB Member
As you asked; my advice is C2 every time. But then again 964s in Red or White are my faves so perhaps I'm just odd. Oh and dark interior everytime [
]
15K should get you something nice but there seems to be a lot of cr*p to sift through to find nice ones. Also you should take a view on each car as to how likely is an engine rebuild to be required for oil leaks or just a refresh as they get to the 100K mark. You might end up buying a 12K car knowing you have to do the engine. It's when you buy the 15K car that does need one that's then a problem. It can be very difficult looking under a wet engine to know where the oil is coming from and most 964 engines are at least a little wet which gets blown around making it look worse. Also note if you don't buy privately most dealers will not include oil leaks in whatever warrenty they give you.
Ian.
]15K should get you something nice but there seems to be a lot of cr*p to sift through to find nice ones. Also you should take a view on each car as to how likely is an engine rebuild to be required for oil leaks or just a refresh as they get to the 100K mark. You might end up buying a 12K car knowing you have to do the engine. It's when you buy the 15K car that does need one that's then a problem. It can be very difficult looking under a wet engine to know where the oil is coming from and most 964 engines are at least a little wet which gets blown around making it look worse. Also note if you don't buy privately most dealers will not include oil leaks in whatever warrenty they give you.
Ian.
Who's Adrian ???? Assume you mean me
Jamie
ps - insurance isn't a big issue - took me a while to find someone who would offer sensible cover, but when I did the quote was extremely reasonable. I pay six hundred and something pounds, aged 30, parked on-street in London, for 5k miles p.a., all mods declared. Classic policy with my g.f. as a named driver
skendrick
New member
Sorry Jamie must have been thinking about insurance as I replied (I'm with Adrian Flux).
I was thinking that if I found a coupe with ex and int near to A1 condition as possible then the only thing to worry about would be the engine. Is engine work cheaper than a respray, and if the car had some surface bubbles would you get the car resprayed?
I would like a C4 if I can find one, colour doesn't bother me providing it's the right one.
I was thinking that if I found a coupe with ex and int near to A1 condition as possible then the only thing to worry about would be the engine. Is engine work cheaper than a respray, and if the car had some surface bubbles would you get the car resprayed?
I would like a C4 if I can find one, colour doesn't bother me providing it's the right one.
Short answer is both are expensive. A full respray will cost you £3k -£10k depending where and how much prep work needed. A top end rebuild will cost around the £3k mark too. So to that extent there's not much to choose between them. It should be possible to find a car that needs neither at your budget if you're patient. Personally I'd much rather have the mechanically sound car and be able to work on the appearance over time as and when funds allowed, but each to their own. Good luck with the search, and I wouldn't get hung up on a C4 - try a C2 as well.
Jamie
38F3E1
PCGB Member
It's about 2K labour to strip an engine down, inspect it and rebuild it. Then there are whatever parts you need to refresh the engine. Whilst doing the top end it's worth looking at the bottom end in case bearing are getting near end of life. Total cost would likely be 2.5K-3.5K unless there is something seriously wrong. It should then be good for 100K miles.
Respray quotes seem to be about 4.5K for a quality full respray. Then there is the labour to strip car and re-assemble so 3K-10K sounds fair depending on how far you go and what rot you find.
A good quality inspection can give you a feel for both of these scenarios.
Surprised you want a C4 after a 944 as you may find the front end rather 'dead'.
Ian.
Respray quotes seem to be about 4.5K for a quality full respray. Then there is the labour to strip car and re-assemble so 3K-10K sounds fair depending on how far you go and what rot you find.
A good quality inspection can give you a feel for both of these scenarios.
Surprised you want a C4 after a 944 as you may find the front end rather 'dead'.
Ian.
skendrick
New member
If I go for a C2 I think the back of my mind would be saying 'should have gone for a C4' but I would also be thinking 'if the 4 wheel drive goes it would be costly and the car is 100Kilos heavier'.
I expect when the right car comes along if it's a C2 or C4 it won't matter.
Took my car to Eporsche the other day for a valuation but he wasn't there, I will try again next time I'm in the area.
I expect when the right car comes along if it's a C2 or C4 it won't matter.
Took my car to Eporsche the other day for a valuation but he wasn't there, I will try again next time I'm in the area.
I was open minded about C2 or C4.
I drove my C4 in the rain last night for the first time and I can definitely feel the front end pushing wide, but I haven't fitted my Eibachs nor had the geometry set up yet. It wasn't as much fun as the RWD 911's I have had, but I was probably going faster. Once I have the balance more neutral I'll be happy with it (I hope).
I drove my C4 in the rain last night for the first time and I can definitely feel the front end pushing wide, but I haven't fitted my Eibachs nor had the geometry set up yet. It wasn't as much fun as the RWD 911's I have had, but I was probably going faster. Once I have the balance more neutral I'll be happy with it (I hope).
Also possibly considering a 964. It worries me that you need to budget £3K for an engine rebuild at around 100K as my 944S2 will still run right round to 6000rpm neither drops any nor uses much oil with 186K on the clock.
Sounds silly I know, but I would prefer to buy a lower mileage car when I should really be buying on condition not mileage. Thus it looks like I should look at cars which have already had a rebuild. But it still worries me. I have always come from the school which says that if an engine/gearbox has been changed or rebuilt then there is something fundamentally wrong with the car (I remember my Dad's old SD1 which had had a new autobox fitted, great to drive but a mechanical nightmare!)
Can someone reassure me, I would like to think I could run a 964 for not too much more than my S2 but potential £3K bills would rather put it out of the equation at the moment.
Sounds silly I know, but I would prefer to buy a lower mileage car when I should really be buying on condition not mileage. Thus it looks like I should look at cars which have already had a rebuild. But it still worries me. I have always come from the school which says that if an engine/gearbox has been changed or rebuilt then there is something fundamentally wrong with the car (I remember my Dad's old SD1 which had had a new autobox fitted, great to drive but a mechanical nightmare!)
Can someone reassure me, I would like to think I could run a 964 for not too much more than my S2 but potential £3K bills would rather put it out of the equation at the moment.
38F3E1
PCGB Member
Running costs for 964s has recently been debated on Pistonheads and the consensus was £1500-£2500 a year to look after a 964 properly assuming you get the work done by an independent (ie not DIY).
Combination of servicing, consumables and replacing stuff that breaks. Obviously the cost will come in peaks and troughs but those figures seem reasonable to me.
Engines do eventually need rebuilding on 964s, its a fact of life. Most other variants of 911 have the same requirement except perhaps the 911SC which seems to have the most long lasting bulletproof engine of them all. Bottom ends are typically built to last 100,000 to 120,000 miles. Top end may need doing anytime from 80,000 upwards.
Huge generlisation but a lot of 964s have reached rebuild mileage which may explain why you see a lot of cars at 12-13K. As long as you buy at the right price then don't be scared of buying one needing a rebuild.
Ian.
Combination of servicing, consumables and replacing stuff that breaks. Obviously the cost will come in peaks and troughs but those figures seem reasonable to me.
Engines do eventually need rebuilding on 964s, its a fact of life. Most other variants of 911 have the same requirement except perhaps the 911SC which seems to have the most long lasting bulletproof engine of them all. Bottom ends are typically built to last 100,000 to 120,000 miles. Top end may need doing anytime from 80,000 upwards.
Huge generlisation but a lot of 964s have reached rebuild mileage which may explain why you see a lot of cars at 12-13K. As long as you buy at the right price then don't be scared of buying one needing a rebuild.
Ian.
kevin
New member
Bottom ends can and do go on forever, hints at bottom end rebuilds being required are things like low oil pressure at idle when warm...top ends whenever they start to leak too much or use too much oil....things like that. I know of examples on Rennlist that have 200k on them, no bottom end work. Good oil and regular maintenance.
In servicing mine has averaged out at about £400/yr at an independant, my mods and paint have added about 1k/yr to that, but that's my choice.......I do 3-4k/yr mileage wise
As ever a PPI buy on condition, talk , no BB to owners, visit people get experience and there you go, a wealth of experience for your turn...
If I ever sold mine, and I'm not going to I reckon I could hold out for 16k. 105k in miles..
Kevin
In servicing mine has averaged out at about £400/yr at an independant, my mods and paint have added about 1k/yr to that, but that's my choice.......I do 3-4k/yr mileage wise
As ever a PPI buy on condition, talk , no BB to owners, visit people get experience and there you go, a wealth of experience for your turn...
If I ever sold mine, and I'm not going to I reckon I could hold out for 16k. 105k in miles..
Kevin
Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members
Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions
