Buying advice

[Gordon Attar]

ORIGINAL: ian_uk

Running costs for 964s has recently been debated on Pistonheads and the consensus was £1500-£2500 a year to look after a 964 properly assuming you get the work done by an independent (ie not DIY).

Combination of servicing, consumables and replacing stuff that breaks. Obviously the cost will come in peaks and troughs but those figures seem reasonable to me.

Engines do eventually need rebuilding on 964s, its a fact of life. Most other variants of 911 have the same requirement except perhaps the 911SC which seems to have the most long lasting bulletproof engine of them all. Bottom ends are typically built to last 100,000 to 120,000 miles. Top end may need doing anytime from 80,000 upwards.

Huge generlisation but a lot of 964s have reached rebuild mileage which may explain why you see a lot of cars at 12-13K. As long as you buy at the right price then don't be scared of buying one needing a rebuild.

Ian.

That should scare him off nicely

I moved from a 944S2 to a 964, had one for a 3.5 years cost me £2.5 k in maintenance and repairs inc tyres did over 20k in it, yes when I bought mind I had in the back of my mind that worst scenario was a £2.5 k rebuild and never needed one. If I had one,my costs for 3.5 years would have been £5-6k which would have been £1.5 to £2k/annum!
Please remember that you only here about the bad news on a lot of forums

Dave W
Have you still got access to the 964 poll where people listed colours, leaks rebuilds?

 

[colin129]

ORIGINAL: ian_uk

Running costs for 964s has recently been debated on Pistonheads and the consensus was £1500-£2500 a year to look after a 964 properly assuming you get the work done by an independent (ie not DIY).

Combination of servicing, consumables and replacing stuff that breaks. Obviously the cost will come in peaks and troughs but those figures seem reasonable to me.

Engines do eventually need rebuilding on 964s, its a fact of life. Most other variants of 911 have the same requirement except perhaps the 911SC which seems to have the most long lasting bulletproof engine of them all. Bottom ends are typically built to last 100,000 to 120,000 miles. Top end may need doing anytime from 80,000 upwards.

Huge generlisation but a lot of 964s have reached rebuild mileage which may explain why you see a lot of cars at 12-13K. As long as you buy at the right price then don't be scared of buying one needing a rebuild.

Ian.

I guess I am spending up to £1,500 a year on the S2, this has gone up from the £1,000 I used to spend, but then I have been doing 18K miles a year for the past 18 months, I expect the running costs to dramatically reduce now I keep it for w/end use (i.e. back down to £1,000 [&:]) .

It is as I thought though, the 964 is one of the more expensive Porsches to run. If I go for one that has already had the engine work done by a reputable independent, I'm guessing I would be alright for a good few years until I can save up for my dream 993!!!

Thanks for the info guys

 

[colin129]

ORIGINAL: Gordon Attar

That should scare him off nicely

I moved from a 944S2 to a 964, had one for a 3.5 years cost me £2.5 k in maintenance and repairs inc tyres did over 20k in it, yes when I bought mind I had in the back of my mind that worst scenario was a £2.5 k rebuild and never needed one. If I had one,my costs for 3.5 years would have been £5-6k which would have been £1.5 to £2k/annum!
Please remember that you only here about the bad news on a lot of forums

Dave W
Have you still got access to the 964 poll where people listed colours, leaks rebuilds?

You posted this exactly the same time as I posted my response and your story is a bit more encouarging to me.

I guess its a case of caveat emptor, I remember when I brought my S2, nearly 10 years ago, the first sevice cost me over £3K. I need to buy right from a reputable independent, although that's no guarantee either as I brought the S2 from Micheal Ticehurst (before he died in a car crash obviously) who was supposed to be well thought of at the time, and when I told him about the repairs I needed he said 'serves you right for using a main dealer' which is not what I expected.

 

[Fen]

Remember Colin that your S2 may very well be overdue for a £1,500 cam replacement. Even if you don't think it is unless you as an owner have already had it done I would (were I a buyer of your car) consider it would probably need one.

It's the same for the 964. Either buy one that has had top end rebuild already (relatively rare actually, suggesting people forget to advertise this or more likely that most haven't been done) or pay a price that leaves headroom to have it rebuilt without making it hugely more costly than the car is worth. I did the latter (both with my S2 cab when I bought it and my 964). There simply isn't time to get a cheap but decent car inspected as someone will buy it out from under you while you are arranging it; after the second time that happened to me I decided to talk through the car with my indie over the phonw while I looked at it and take a punt if it was cheap enough. Having done just that I pretty much got what I expected; corrosion around the screen that has been fixed now at a cost I will find out on Saturday when I collect (around £700 I think as I had some scuffs to get done also), a 24k service needed at £400 or so, and a report that it's dripping a little oil and will need a top end rebuild sometime, but it's OK for a while yet. That's with 133k. I'll probably use it as an excuse to fit 3.8 barrels and pistons at some point if I decide to keep the car long term.

 

[38F3E1]

ORIGINAL: Gordon Attar
That should scare him off nicely

Not meant to scare people off just bringing another viewpoint.

You can run a 964 cheaper than that for a couple of years but you will be building up problems which you have to take care off eventually. A lot of the 'I bought a car then had to spend thousands on it in the first year' is because the previous owner did the basics but not the long term maintanence items. The figure posted was a figure which is a reasonable guess per year for the long term maintenance of a 964.

Ian.

 

[38F3E1]

ORIGINAL: kevin

Bottom ends can and do go on forever, hints at bottom end rebuilds being required are things like low oil pressure at idle when warm...top ends whenever they start to leak too much or use too much oil....things like that. I know of examples on Rennlist that have 200k on them, no bottom end work. Good oil and regular maintenance.

Agreed but the norm for 964 engines is reckoned to be 100-120K miles for the bottom end. Anymore and you risk bearing failure.

Ian.

 

[Gordon Attar]

Colin
It looks as if you are on the same slippery path except I missed the 993 std car on the way to my dream car as it was the same price.

Mr Ticehurst was rather like Henry Firman they sell the car as seen and expect the prospective owners to spot the problems and then they get them repaired. Presumably your somewhere in Berks/Oxon and have access to some good Indies, so talk to your current specialist and see what he says about the upgrade you will be pleasantly surprised and he will probably offer to inspect it for you. My advice would be to join the 964 group on Yahoo and rennlist and an eye on Pistonheads classifieds. Start looking at cars you will soon know the difference between the good the bad and the ugly ones and over a period of a year you will find a few 60/70k cars for £16/£17k and if its a later model 92/93 its unlikely to leak and also a number of the 'well sorted' cars you are familier with from the sites will come up for sale and they are always better than the standard for sale offerings.

Yes the 964 costs more to service the normal wear and tear items are maybe a bit more but not much, a clutch is £700 they can go a bit more often than a 944S2, tyres are wider and cost more I would say that it was probably about 25% more expensive to run than my 944S2. Yes there are the usual odd expensive items that go on occasion just like the water pump and wishbones on the 944S2 at the end of the day I think they are no more expensive to run repair than most of your company hacks without the depreciation

Ian
My car was bought from and looked after by Northways(£45/hour) and I didnt put anything of, had a full service each year inc tappets had the discs replaced had the obscure electrical problem which resulted in Coils, rotors, caps and ended up replacing the distributor had the Targa replced etc etc and I was gutted on losing £250 in depreciation over 3.5 years! and the car was in better condition than when I bought it.

Fen
and you've reminded me, there was always the fear of the dreaded "rattling of the chains" when I had the 944S2

 

[colin129]

ORIGINAL: Gordon Attar

Colin
It looks as if you are on the same slippery path except I missed the 993 std car on the way to my dream car as it was the same price.

Mr Ticehurst was rather like Henry Firman they sell the car as seen and expect the prospective owners to spot the problems and then they get them repaired. Presumably your somewhere in Berks/Oxon and have access to some good Indies, so talk to your current specialist and see what he says about the upgrade you will be pleasantly surprised and he will probably offer to inspect it for you. My advice would be to join the 964 group on Yahoo and rennlist and an eye on Pistonheads classifieds. Start looking at cars you will soon know the difference between the good the bad and the ugly ones and over a period of a year you will find a few 60/70k cars for £16/£17k and if its a later model 92/93 its unlikely to leak and also a number of the 'well sorted' cars you are familier with from the sites will come up for sale and they are always better than the standard for sale offerings.

Yes the 964 costs more to service the normal wear and tear items are maybe a bit more but not much, a clutch is £700 they can go a bit more often than a 944S2, tyres are wider and cost more I would say that it was probably about 25% more expensive to run than my 944S2. Yes there are the usual odd expensive items that go on occasion just like the water pump and wishbones on the 944S2 at the end of the day I think they are no more expensive to run repair than most of your company hacks without the depreciation

Thanks for the advice Gordon, although £700 for a clutch seeems like good value compared to my S2. I replaced mine at 90K miles, quite a while ago and for a little more than that, and at 186K miles there appears to be no discernable wear, I don't think I am hard on my mechanical components.

I have been using JZ Machtech for a number of years now and was advised that, as long as I keep servicing her on a regular basis, which I do and always follow their advice on maintenance (I have always found them knowledgeable, fair and willing to talk), that there will be no major problems for a few years to come.

The view of Jonas, the boss fella, was that 964's are a more expensive Porsche to run, he always has time to talk and they know me and my car well. Probably the best way for me to go, because I trust them and would be happy to recommend them to anyone, would be to ask them to put their ear to the ground for a car that they maintain and which the owner is looking to sell.

I guess that following a passenger ride in a 964 in our group at Le Mans this year, remember the Leo Genelli group? I was quite excited by the prospect of owning one, and also since the values have fallen in recent years.

 

[Guest]

Steve,

I have a very very nice 964, that I would sell in the price range, all of the boxes are ticked, history condition colour etc, contact me if you might be interested

Tom

 

[skendrick]

Tom,

If you could send me some photos and brief history I would apriciate it, where are you based?

 

[Guest]

Hi Steve, pity it's a coupe you're after--I've got a luverly cabrio for sale only done 68k, in polar silver with blue leather etc etc.

Cheers
Ian
07785 792412

 

[skendrick]

That sounds very nice and too good for me and I'm after a coupr for two reasons.

1. I love the shape of the coupe, and
2. the car is my everyday car and will sit on my dive with a cover over it every night.

So as much as my missus wants a cab again I don't think it would be practical.

Thank for the offer.

 

[Steve Brookes]

Hello 964 owners.

I have found this topic very useful aswell. I would like to know from the tiptronic owners what their thoughts are. I'd initially thought that a four speed auto (rather than my boxster's 5 speed) might mean that the car was even more tame compared to a manual box? But perhaps I'm wrong because after all with my five speed, I find that 1st is actually a rarely used gear - I'm at the rev limiter in a blink of an eye so only really use it for fast standing starts. Maybe the longer legs of the four speed make it more useable especially round a track?

Thanks