Buying advice

[tirfor]

I went to see a 52reg C4s last night. With 43k, no service book (got stolen) and i know that a service has not been carried out on it for about 2yrs because the owner said hes only done 4k in it for that period of ownership.
He did say he had a OPC 111 check on it when he bought it, which showed nothing major wrong apart from the slight leak at the clutch casing.
When i checked the oil level, there was none in it and mayonnaise was around the filler cap. The owner said he dosent use the car often and dosent know much about cars. The oil pressure was on about 3bar on idle, there were no major oil leaks and no smoke blowing out. Should i be worried?
Do C4s use up a lot of oil? Can the mayonnaise be due to lack of use? Is the oil pressure to high?
The rest of the car seemed ok, although he did say he has filled up the coolant, but again i couldnt see any leaks in the usual places.
Any views?

 

[john crannis]

It must be the price that would make you consider buying the car in question. There is a problem with oil leaks between engine and gearbox on 911 cars, my 03 reg. 996 4S where the engine had to be removed to replace the oil seal with a modified version. Fortunately Porsche were willing to pay the majority of the cost involved.
Do come back to me as I have owned several porsches from 1979 onwards, all have been purchased from Porsche Colchester,
Good luck,
John

 

[bobsprats]

Hi.

In relation to this post, and your other post regarding the History on this car.

If I was looking to buy this car my next move would be to contact the previous owner ( on the V5 ) and ask him about the history.Where ever he lives, there will be a local OPC who would be worth a call as well. Carry out an HPI check, speak to the OPC who did the 111 point check, Make sure these checks are on the VIN. Also, make a carefull examination of all the identity markings on the car. The present owner may have lost the Service book, but surley he has some of the other paperwork, i.e. Old invoices, bills for parts and work carried out etc.

If all this checks out OK, and you are happy the lack of history is not hiding something, then your only problems should be what's wrong with the car itself. Leaking of Oil and coolant, unless very minor, is also going to cost you money to have fixed, as it would not pass a 111 point check. and therefore no warranty. But the car is cheap, the money you save on purchace may be more than any repair costs. Hope this helps.

 

[Guest]

You may have a problem on resale with lack of service history, but personally i wouldnt touch it with a bargepole.
On a tangent, has anyone notoced that HPI checks are only covered up to a value of £10k???
nowhere near enough when looking at a car like this.
Sue O

 

[tirfor]

If i was to carry out a 111 check at a OPC near the buyer, find that it has minor problems, buy the car, get the problems fixed, then take it to my local OPC would i have to pay for the 111 check again or will they look at the report and just check what it had previously failed on?

Also i believe that the present owner had reported the oil leak around the gearbox/engine when he had the 111 check done, but he was told that it would cost quite a bit, but as it wasnt bad should maybe leave it for a while. I will have to wait until i see a copy of his report.

 

[tirfor]

Also, i dont think finding the service history will be to hard as it has only had 1 previous owner who kept it for 3years then changed the C4s to a Turbo. So i cant see him not getting the services carried out. Good idea about checking the address as it will shorten my area of search[]
May main worry is that the engine did not have any oil in it and the mayo. Will the 111 check pick up any engine problems?

 

[Diesel130]

ORIGINAL: tirfor
... no service book (got stolen)

Sounds like an excuse for an incomplete service history. Presumably there are no receipts either - did they all get stolen as well?. I wouldn't touch one without receipts, let alone no service book

ORIGINAL: tirfor
.. i know that a service has not been carried out on it for about 2yrs because the owner said hes only done 4k in it for that period of ownership.

Incorrect - the car should be serviced every 12 months. If it has done less than 9K it can be a minor inspection, rather than full service. But the owner obviously doesn't care about maintenance or care of the vehicle.

ORIGINAL: tirfor
When i checked the oil level, there was none in it .... Should i be worried?

Yes! The car should have oil in it !!!

ORIGINAL: tirfor
Any views?

Yes! Forget it, move on to the next. There are a lot of 996's around and best to wait to get a good one. I took 18 months to find mine, but I'm a fussy bu66er.

Sounds like this is a poorly maintained one, with a non caring owner.

 

[John Ware]

Walk away.

 

[Rodney Naghar]

At the risk of repeating myself....I think, after doing some work, it could be a great buy

Mayonnaise....no problem, as long as you don't see any in the coolant expansion tank, it's common and not an issue.

No oil....well I doubt very much there was no oil. You have to have the engine running for a while, then switch off and let the oil fall back into the pan on a level surface.
Check the On Board Computer for when to check the oil it will have a timer (and a digital meter as well)

Coolant loss....probably a cracked expansion tank....cost ~£50 from Eurocarparts for your car. Fitting is around £1-2 hours. It may be cracked radiators though and that is expensive.

Oil leak....that will quite likely be the RMS......if the inspection shows this is leaking this will stop you from getting a warranty unless it's rectified. Get the current owner to pay up......then get the warranty. Once you've had the inspection done, you have a few weeks to get everything fixed, then you just take it to the OPC and pay for the warranty, you don't need to get the inspection carried out again.

No receipts....well we don't know it doesn't have any.....but even if that's the case.....so what? Who cares if the owner replaced a polyrib belt 6k ago, or the discs were changed or whatever.....do your due diligence, get an inspection carried out and get the warranty...... buy on current condition..

I would rather have a car that's only done motorway miles but has no receipts, than one that has a whole book of receipts but only gets driven in traffic. Is a whole book of receipts a good thing?....Doesn't that mean the car is a lemon or not? Receipts are just a bit of a red herring IMO. It may give you an idea of which garage it's been taken to to get the work done, and the sellers budget (both rough guides as to how he may take care of his car), but it doesn't tell you a thing about how he really treats it. Full bore standing starts? Revving it hard when cold? Stop start traffic driving? Who knows...receipts don't tell you.

The car is priced very keenly indeed. If you do manage to get the service history back and even some receipts...all that's missing is an annual inspection that should have been carried out last year sometime (that is if it wasn't due a major service)....the annual inspection is a waste of time so what does it actually tell you about the condition of the car now anyway? Nothing.

I would look into the service book issue first, that is really important come resale time. Then I would get the inspection carried out and try and get the owner to pay out for as much as possible.
But at that price it's a steal, if you are prepared to do the work.

 

[Guest]

No one gives away something for nothing. if it sounds to good to be true, then it is. If anything major happens as a consequesnce you could could buying a whole heap of EXPENSIVE trouble (new engine approx £10K) - What sort of person has a car like this, with no history and no receiptsand dosent look after it? hardly a caring owner. Seems to me that you are asking for advice from some very experienced Porsche owners yet you are still trying to talk yourself into it. The right car will come up for you. sometimes it just takes a bit of time, but hang on in there.
Good luck , SueO

 

[tirfor]

Thanks for all the advice, i have decided to get it booked in for a 111 check before buying and try to locate the service history from the previous owner.
If it fails or no history, i will be walking away unless the owner is willing to pay. If its ok and i find the history i think i will buy it.
It did drive fine, brakes good, electrics all work, enigne had no funny sounds or blows out any smoke, no oil leaks except dry marks by engine /gearbox, body work wasnt perfect but was original.
I am hoping the lack of oil was due to normal consumption and the owner just never checked the level in 2 yrs, he thought the pressure gauge was the oil level!
The main point is the price, i have been looking for nearly 1 yr and cant find a similar spec for less then 37k and thats rare. My budget is already stretched and i have only ever wanted a C4s. How long will i have to wait for prices to come down! I am hoping to do some work to get it up to scratch and get it on the road for 33-34K[]
Just hope all checks out on it and i get lucky for once!

 

[artfailier]

Hi , This seems like a very familiar story . Is the car with a man in Essex who says he is in 'security'? I was given an identical story when looking at a cab4 about 18months ago.I got it checked out with previous owner and OPC and all was bogus.He even left the wrong MOT certificate under the seat in the car (with a much higher mileage !!) but showed me a new one he made earlier!
Always watch out for the big service gap in time.The car can do a big mileage in a couple of years then get 'wound back' proffesionallly and then taken to an OPC for a service therebye recording the lower mileage as if it is genuine history. Leave well alone I feel.

 

[Diesel130]

I didn't see a price mentioned earlier in this thread, but everyone keeps talking about it being cheap - did I miss something ??

 

[tirfor]

Cars at a firm 32k.

 

[Michael Downing]

ORIGINAL: tirfor
I am hoping the lack of oil was due to normal consumption and the owner just never checked the level in 2 yrs, he thought the pressure gauge was the oil level!

So .... the handbook was nicked, too? [8|]

Seriously, how many people buy a car like a 911 to love and cherish, but don't read basic bits like that in the book? Therefore, how well has this car been cared for? Sounds like the car could be a great buy from a naive owner, or a neglected lemon. Sadly, only the seller knows which it is ...

The question is, how many other 996s are available to you, and at what relative price. Take care, and best of luck whatever you decide.

 

[mikfinch]

I've recently bought a C4S myself and I agree that £32k is a very good price but I'm not sure it's that good a price. I also looked at a C4S with similar mileage and missing history myself at a well respected indie Porker dealer and I could have bought that for £34-35k with a warranty.
The way that I'd look at it is that £32k buys a pretty mint C4 3.6 so the choice is between a possibly dodgy C4S or a choice of mint C4's with the spec/colour you want. The C4S may be considered the dog's cojones but I know which one I'd choose.
Also nobody has mentioned bodywork. Has this C4S had any accident repairs because that will certainly mark the price down as well. What about spec? Is it poverty spec or does it have a few goodies?

 

[tirfor]

Body work looks original ie no paintwork.
It is fairly basic apart from sunroof, 6 cd bose.
Just witing for the 111 check.

 

[mikfinch]

Sports seats and sports exhaust would be nice! If the bodywork is unmolested, the 111 point check does'nt turn up anything nasty, then I guess it's worth considering but it would really be worthwile trying to piece together the service history for any future buyers. Are you planning to buy the OPC warranty if the 111 point check goes OK?

 

[Dylan1]

if you are thinking of keeping the car for 4-5 yrs then go ahead if the 111 is ok.if you want to sell it anytime sooner for good money you will find it incredibly hard as most of us are really obsessional and wouldnt look at a car with such questionable provenance(even if it all turns out ok)-reality thats all

 

[Rodney Naghar]

I concur. I would strongly advice you do your research on the Service book first before you waste any money on the 111 point check. If you can't get any history for whatever reason I would not buy the car. History is paramount.