Cab v's Coup.' Turbo v's 3.0 S2..?

[ChasR]

ORIGINAL: TTM

The turbo is the one to have for the sense of occasion

The S2 is the one to have for long and relaxed drives, although the engine is peachy enough to give some decent performance if you can forget that this engine is nearly constantly suggesting that it does not need to be revved much to go fast enough.

Drive as many as you can before making a choice.

I'd agree with those sentiments, and especially the final statement.

When I was looking initially for a 944, everyone said to go for a 2.5 as I would get a 'better car'. Out of the 3 or 4 cars I saw (2 of them were local) only two of them would I have said were viable choices for my given budget. The 2 2.5s I saw were hanging IMO and really were sloppy machines. The other two examples were not too bad (an S2 and a 2.7) Both had their plus points and their negatives. In the end I went with the S2 (which oddly enough was only a few hundred more than the 2.5s and a good chunk less than the 2.7).

Another thing is not to be swayed by mileage. My 951 has 40k more on it than my S2 did (that had 135k on it when sold). In terms of driving them and looking at them, I would have said my 951 was the better car. Of course, part of that may be down to the goodies it has acquired, but it's a point still worth considering .

 

[Suffolk944]

Nothing more else to add than has been said already. Either are excellent cars if well sorted though very different in character and the Turbo certainly needs at least some moderate fettling to turn it into the car it should have been when it left the factory, but when it is you will never want for another "weekend toy". I have had them for nearly ten years now and honestly can't think of anything of similar (or considerably more) budget that could replace it adequately.

That said I do like the Cabs and if I could afford two 944's in my life I would have a S2 cab to sit alongside my turbo in an instant.

 

[MarkK]

Can i add that i agree with the drive a few comment-EVERY turbo i have ever driven felt completely different,either power delivery or state of the suspension.

 

[Copperman05]

Not much to add accept that I agree with what Chas has said, a car with refreshed suspension or even better kwv3 is going to be more fun to drive and more capable whatever model, dont get too het-up about horse power its the chassis that really sings on these cars.



Edd

 

[TTM]

... the problem with making the chassis even better than it already is is that it brings further evidence in the need for more power ... []

 

[Ex Skyline]

"Egg boiling turbo lag".....[], come and have a go in mine....[]!! Also, i'm on 18's and, like i said once before, my Turbo handles like a Go-Cart (except in the wet of course []) and,those big 18's look the Mutz Nutz![8D][].

 

[Copperman05]

ORIGINAL: TTM

... the problem with making the chassis even better than it already is is that it brings further evidence in the need for more power ... []

In fact its quite the opposite effect!


Edd

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: Copperman05
In fact its quite the opposite effect!

Did you work on the advertising campaign for the GT86?

 

[Copperman05]

Haha, no, whilst I agree that improving the chassis with allow for more power to be added and more power able to be put down on the road, I dont think it necessarily highlights any shortcomings in existing power but allows you to use what you have it to its full potential, making power upgrades less of a necessity.

Having said that, a good, well modified turbo with power and chassis sorted must be pretty fun!


Edd

 

[Ewan]

If you're not quite up for the cost and endless work that seems to be part of the turbo experience, the S2 is a great car.

But it is a tad lazy and soft compared with an adjusted, balls-out, turbo. So you may as well go completely soft and have the convertible. I had one and loved it. But there is scuttle shake, so I wouldn't want one now in my part of rural Dorset where the road surfaces are truly appalling.

If I lived somewhere more urban (or suburban) with flattish roads and some traffic, I'd be happy to have another S2 cab. But for now, my tweaked turbo coupe is exactly what's required.

 

[Suffolk944]

I'm not sure that the Turbo needs any more work (in terms of maintenance etc) than the S2 - possibly less in some aspects. Upgrades and the pursuit of booooost is of course another matter altogether ![8D]

 

[edh]

I don't think a turbo is ever finished....but an s2 is ready out of the box []

 

[Copperman05]

ORIGINAL: Suffolk944

I'm not sure that the Turbo needs any more work (in terms of maintenance etc) than the S2 - possibly less in some aspects. Upgrades and the pursuit of booooost is of course another matter altogether ![8D]

Really? What about head gaskets? (I know a few who have gone through several), Turbo's that need replacing or go bang? And they certainly need alot more 'fettling' than an S2 to run right. Whilst saying they are unreliable is perhaps a little too strong they certainly seem to provide owners with frequent trips to the indy, upgrades or not.



Edd

 

[TTM]

The thing is that a bog standard turbo should be bullet proof if it has never been messed with and been maintained at least following the Porsche maintenance schedule. The other thing is that cars with such criterias may be an extinct species by now.
I have been lucky enough to buy a high mileage one that had had only 2 previous owners, the first one racking up 140k miles, the second one only a couple of thousands, and the car came with all the bills right from the beginning. The gearbox was replaced with a new one at 110k, the head by a new one at 120k miles. I suppose the turbo was refreshed when they replaced the head as it showed little to no play when I took the engine out at 175k - only because I built a "bigger" engine, and it was performing flawlessly the last time it ran 4 years ago.

Many S2 have had transmission issues. I know from insiders at P that a lot of them had the transaxle tube replaced under warranty back in the days (the slit in the torque tube caused a world of trouble). I have also heard more noisy S2 gearboxes than turbo gearboxes. It should not affect how well they work, but it makes you wonder. This and the fact that Porsche omitted to include the cam chain tensioner pads as a servicing item.
I love my S2, probably more than my turbo, but I know which ones feels tighter, and it's the turbo with 50% more miles on the clock, and my S2 was a one owner car with 50k miles back then with all the bills. You just can't destroy a std turbo engine in full health, it's so much under stressed, while the 3L block makes a lot more heat and you've got these funny valve springs that break without notice after a couple of hundred thousand miles. No such chore with the agricultural 8V head.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

All I can say is that a Lux is significantly cheaper to buy and run than an S2, and from info gathered here a turbo. It's arguably more fun at speeds that won't get you in to trouble with either the law or the armco, as well.

The OP asked what would be best for £5K. I'd still say that, unless you really need to be first away from the lights every time, that budget buys a seriously nice Lux with some money in hand to keep it that way. I think £5K is a budget that you'll possibly find a good S2 or Turbo at, but you'll be struggling IMO.

My old Lux sold for a bit over £1000, and I think I'd be right in saying it's cost many thousands less to maintain than my S2 over the last 4 years. The newer car is no faster past the speed cameras, is no better at "safe" motorway speeds, and the extra grunt is rarely a benefit when overtaking if you are using your brain and planning ahead. I really think that a £5K budget, unles you're a DIY expert, is best spent on a really nice Lux, or even a 924S?

 

[Frenchy]

I really do not know where the Turbo v S2 running cost thing comes in to play here, apart from servicing, my 2 turbos have not cost any more than a S2 to run except for adding go faster goodies, fair enough they both are not really used heavily in the winter months and do not do mega miles but apart from the odd oil leak and a few gremlins applicable to other models have been as good as gold, they do not cost more to run than any other 944 model if not ignored maintenance wise.

They actually throw more faults up when left parked up rather than being used on a regular basis.............................but i still hate bringing them out on salty roads !!

 

[zcacogp]

Ummm, much has been said on this thread (and much of it good as well) but what sort of car do you like? And, maybe more importantly, what are you going to be doing with it? Will you mainly drive it in town or across continents? Weekends only or a daily driver? Popping out to Asda or to Austria?

Any 944 is more about the chassis and balance than about the engine. Choose one and you will have a great car. Two bits of advice that are worth repeating:

ORIGINAL: ChasR
After owning both, I would go on the best condition car that you can get between an S2 and a Turbo.

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
... unless you have access to camera-free de-restricted roads a 944 Lux in really good order is actually all the car you need ... A light, reasonably powered, under-tyred, cheap car is arguably the best thing you could have as a toy on our UK roads. Keep half the budget back for repairs or improvements, keep your license clean, and have something you can throw away if it gets bent or breaks.

(McNulters may be old and boring but they made him Register Secretary for a reason other than his good looks.)


Oli.

 

[Suffolk944]

ORIGINAL: Copperman05

ORIGINAL: Suffolk944

I'm not sure that the Turbo needs any more work (in terms of maintenance etc) than the S2 - possibly less in some aspects. Upgrades and the pursuit of booooost is of course another matter altogether ![8D]

Really? What about head gaskets? (I know a few who have gone through several), Turbo's that need replacing or go bang? And they certainly need alot more 'fettling' than an S2 to run right. Whilst saying they are unreliable is perhaps a little too strong they certainly seem to provide owners with frequent trips to the indy, upgrades or not.



Edd

I would imagine that turning the boost up would indeed increase the chances of the headgasket letting go but (touch wood) in ten years on owning turbos with the wick turned up I have yet to encounter that. That said since strapping the bigger turbo to mine it now has a cometic gasket which will hopefully prove robust enough. Turbos will eventually go of course but then so do cam chains on S2's. The 8v engine itself is a simple old thing and very robust and my cars have never let me down in terms of being "unreliable". Other than upgrades and general things wearing out (brake pads etc) , mine just goes to the indy once a year for its service and seems quite happy.

That said I am sure that if one bought a neglected Turbo it would require more fettling than a neglected S2 to get right and yes they do need some basic tweaking to dial out the epic lag of the original set up whereas the S2 is of course spot on straight out of the box.

 

[chrisjcoe]

For your cash, I would say to satisfy the above requirements, I would buy a good S2 and spend the spare change on a suspension refresh

After a lot of research on here and elsewhere, that's the opinion I formed too. Even a tired S2 can be brought back to life again with renewed suspension and a bit of fettling. My suspension refresh is planned during summer. I can't see myself every taking it to a track day, so blistering performance isn't an issue. As long as I can toe it on the local country A roads, I'm happy!

I've only driven an S2, but the amount of debate on here about the S2 vs Turbo makes me think that there isn't a huge amount to chose between them in everyday driving. So, considering the Turbo costs a decent amount more than a similar condition S2, I'd go with the S2 and spend any spare money on improvements.

Also, while I find I agree with most of what Paul says, I'd also consider resale value. While you never get the money back that you spend on cars, I would say that money spent on the S2 and Turbo would have more of a positive impact on resale value. Spend a few thousand on a Lux, and it's still a Lux in the eyes of buyers and not worth much more than any other, but they seem more willing to pay that bit extra for a good S2 or Turbo. If it's rarity you want, then the S would be a good car to look at. It seems to me that there aren't that many about, although this doesn't seem to push the price up, there may be a time in the future where this car is seen as a valuable rarity, so if you find a good one it might be worth hanging on to it.

 

[andy watson]

ORIGINAL: chrisjcoe


If it's rarity you want, then the S would be a good car to look at. It seems to me that there aren't that many about, although this doesn't seem to push the price up, there may be a time in the future where this car is seen as a valuable rarity, so if you find a good one it might be worth hanging on to it.

Chris, shush.that is why I haven't contributed to this thread

Keep it quiet []