Can someone please explain the Scotland forum changes?

[poprock]

Can someone either from the moderation team or the PCGB staff please post a thread in the two newly-split Scotland forums to let us all know what's been done with them and why?

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm a bit confused. Is our region's forum going to be members only from now on? Is it that Scotland's being used for a trial run before applying it across the UK (just like with the Poll Tax)?

I'm sure whatever's going on is being done with the best intentions, but changing things without explanation or consultation is exactly what has caused the recent frictions within the region and I'd hate to see the same thing happen again.

Thanks.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Hi Tony,

I would have posted on this sooner, but thought it would take longer to action so I apologise!

Basically, there has been much discussion and the general consensus from members has been that it is both unfair that non-members should become involved in a Regional matter, as on the recent threads, and that new non-members see the sort of mudslinging that has been going on.

With this in mind there were three options:

1 - Igonre the members and volunteers and do nothing.

2 - Make a "members only" area as the 997 guys have, logistically difficult on every forum and would involve much more work for the volunteers.

3 - Or, make the Regions members-only if requested, on a one-by-one basis. This seemed the most straightforward action.


I think it's pretty widely felt that there is no benefit to having non-members, or ex-members who've stated they are not going to renew, having access to the Region forums. If potential new members need info on events it's all on the website, not the forums anyway. As was said on the forum recently the discussions of the Region's problems were getting in the way of a solution. If there is a "general" discussion then the "general" forum is the right place for it.

Apologies again for not putting an explanation on sooner, but work does sometimes get in the way of the admin volunteer's real job of monitoring the forums! []

If any members have any questions about this, you can either contact the admin team or post freely on the Region forum with the knowledge that the discussion is not going to be someone's first impression of the Club when they don't know any of the background information.

 

[jenpot]

Hi, so, how do we access the scotland region? Obviously, I can't look back at my previous posts to see if I'm classed as a member.

 

[jenpot]

Ah, there we are, I'm not. So, how do I go about changing it again?

Actually, you know what, I'm so utterly sick of all this nonsence. It's not a club, it's a bloody clique. To state that non member are now no longer allowed to even see the forum, never mind the fact that they are not welcome to any events really pisses me off. This club seems to do it's best to alienate anyone who doesn't buy into it. This is not a Scotland region thing, this is a PCGB problem. Prospective members should be welcomed with open arms, instead the club seems intent on scaring off the who it has left.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

ORIGINAL: jenpot

Hi, so, how do we access the scotland region? Obviously, I can't look back at my previous posts to see if I'm classed as a member.

Hi Jen,

The "why am I a non-member" thread is on the General forum here:

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=70284

Obviously it's a problem if members haven't done this yet, I'd suggest a PM to "Nicd" who will get your details updated as a matter of urgency. It's a simple one-off fix, because the forum requires confirmation of membership to access all areas!

 

[jenpot]

Ta. Everything else still stands though!

 

[poprock]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

If potential new members need info on events it's all on the website, not the forums anyway

Thanks for replying Paul.

I'm not sure about that part"”from what I can see on the PCGB website, you need to log in as a member before you can view any details on a specific region.

Otherwise, I see what you're trying to do. Maybe there was an option four though: moving this discussion to the existing Members Only forum under the General section?

Still hard to police, I know, but no more or less so than this solution. I don't think there is a simple, clean answer at this stage.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

I'm not sure about that part"”from what I can see on the PCGB website, you need to log in as a member before you can view any details on a specific region.

According to the experts you don't need to log in to see the region areas of the website, see discussion here:

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=380004

As I'm logged in all the time I can't confirm, but happy to take this up if it's not correct! [&:]

Regarding moving the discussion into the main "members" forum, I personally think that Region matters are so specific that they need to stay local. I'd reiterate the point that there's really no reason why a non-member, or ex-member, would need to access the forums anyway? If a prospective member wants to know how to attend a regional event then there is the Club office to call, or the website to look at.

I know we're not perfect, and any action taken here is, of course, only based on the feedback we get from the members. Please let us know your feelings as it is the only way we know if we're doing the right things! []

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Ok, all.....

How much feeling is there that there should be split-forums, as per the 997 forum? A few members have suggested they think this is the best way to go, but I'm not sure whether there is really a point to creating double the forums?

Any changes here are supposed to be for the benefit of the membership, so your opinion is welcome. Only caveat is, if you don't like something please post it on the "members-only" forum!! [][]

 

[poprock]

You're right, anyone can view the calendar of events, if they go to Events Calendar and then use the search function to narrow it down by region.

That seems a little counter-intuitive to me though. My instinct would be to click Regions, select my region, and then see what was going on near me. That's the part that's hidden behind the wall, so to speak. A non-member can't see anything filed under Regions"”so they can't even find out where their local club meetings are, for instance. I'd say that's a pretty vital thing to tell prospective members, so they can go along and find out whether membership's for them or not. I certainly wouldn't join a car club without meeting some of the other members first to see what it's like.

None of this is an issue for you guys here on the forum, by the way! I'm just thinking aloud because feedback's always helpful.

I find it hard to follow the logic of what's kept from non-members and what isn't because it's inconsistent. If there's a good reason for the region sections being private on the website, then maybe those same sections should be private on the forums too? Simplest is almost always best.

Re. your second post there: A lot of the forum users post in exclusively in their region's forum, regardless of subject matter. It's a different user behaviour than the place is set up for"”the choices are probably either to embrace the unexpected usage and accommodate it better, or to moderate more actively by moving threads around to the general UK-wide forums until people get into the habit of posting around the place for themselves.

I wouldn't say either option is better than the other, but doubling the number of forums seems like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. People are using the regional forums for general chat with their local mates"”not just for PCGB matters.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

You're right, anyone can view the calendar of events, if they go to Events Calendar and then use the search function to narrow it down by region.

That seems a little counter-intuitive to me though. My instinct would be to click Regions, select my region, and then see what was going on near me. That's the part that's hidden behind the wall, so to speak. A non-member can't see anything filed under Regions"”so they can't even find out where their local club meetings are, for instance. I'd say that's a pretty vital thing to tell prospective members, so they can go along and find out whether membership's for them or not. I certainly wouldn't join a car club without meeting some of the other members first to see what it's like.

Makes sense, I'll pass this on. The website should be completely instinctive to use, it's our shop-window to the world.

Thanks!

 

[peanut]

is there a chance that non members will suddenly be excluded from the forums without warning ? It would be a shame if that was the case. I am certain that non members have made this forum the success that it is today. I remember when it was a closed forum , there were virtually no posts back then. I understood that one of the reasons that the forums were opened was up to attract a more general input from non members and members alike to expand the community.

It might seem like a bit of a `kick in the teeth' for many that have invested considerable time and effort into this community to be suddenly and arbitarily excluded

.
There are surely many people posting here that either do not have, or are considering purchasing a Porsche. Many posters will be too young or too old or disabled etc
Is PCGB going to exclude these people because it is of little benefit to them to pay £60.00 a year for membership.?

 

[pauljmcnulty]

is there a chance that non members will suddenly be excluded from the forums without warning ? It would be a shame if that was the case. I am certain that non members have made this forum the success that it is today. I remember when it was a closed forum , there were virtually no posts back then. I understood that one of the reasons that the forums were opened was up to attract a more general input from non members and members alike to expand the community.

It might seem like a bit of a `kick in the teeth' for many that have invested considerable time and effort into this community to be suddenly and arbitarily excluded

.
There are surely many people posting here that either do not have, or are considering purchasing a Porsche. Many posters will be too young or too old or disabled etc
Is PCGB going to exclude these people because it is of little benefit to them to pay £60.00 a year for membership.?

Hi Peanut,

I don't think there's any chance of the forums being closed to non-members, although there are a large number of paying members who don't like non-paying members getting the benefit. As you know, I feel it's impossible to consider a Register working without the input from experts abroad, or people who've had a model for years and can give advice even though they no longer have the car for example.

Regions are different, as there's no reason a non-member would want more than an over-view of what is going on locally. From the comments I've received people are very upset that non-members feel they have a right to comment on how the local Club is run. It's the old "you invite someone for dinner, then he starts to insult you" argument again, and we've had that one!

If the Club members want changes to any aspect of the Club then that's their right, but I agree that there needs to be both open and closed areas on any forum that is paid for by one section of it's users.

JMHO!

 

[peanut]

Hi Peanut,

I don't think there's any chance of the forums being closed to non-members, although there are a large number of paying members who don't like non-paying members getting the benefit.
JMHO!

thank you for taking the time to explain that Paul. It is still not clear what `benefits' these members think that non members get from this forum ? If we attend any PCGB events we pay like anyone else and the events probably benefit from non member attendance at various events and track days etc
I know that I for one give far far more to members (and non members) in advice and help than I ever receive in return. To be frank I resent the inference that I or any other non members in some way benefit from this community for free.

If someone could explain to me what benefits I am receiving for free I'd be more than happy to either pay for them or make sure that I do not recieve these benefits.

 

[garyw]

ORIGINAL: peanut
If someone could explain to me what benefits I am receiving for free I'd be more than happy to either pay for them or make sure that I do not recieve these benefits.

peanut, I have seen it mentioned that the forum is a "members benefit" and it should be for members only.
To be fair it usually comes from non forum using members more so as I don't think they see what this place is about.

If you were asked/told to pay for something that you don't use then perhaps you too could understand the thinking behind it.
however you could agrue that its them that do not use the forum (they are welcome and free to) so their loss..

I'm glad the forum is open to non members as these means that all enthusiasts and people interested in the brand and club can find out about the scene within the UK and PCGB.

As you may be aware I'm the assistant and moderator for the 997 area which has been mentioned a few times (were not the only section that has members only areas [] )
The majority of chat and information is always posted within the normal area of the forum, however certain club offers and discounts arranged by the register and specific to members is posted within the members only area, something I think you'd agree with is quite fair.
Some register events are posted in the members only area, but always added to the diary list in the main section for everyone to see. My point is that it does take a little more time to look after and setup but can work well for certain areas.

garyw

 

[peanut]

thanks for explaining that side of things Gary I hadn't considered that the cost of running and hosting the forum is met from PCGB members subscriptions. I'm so used to using forums for free that I just didn't consider the cost of this forum.

I do get a lot out of the forum . I would miss the banter and opportunity to help new owners .Perhaps non members should be asked to contribute something annually. I suspect that if it wasn't optional some might move on though

 

[kitchens]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

Ok, all.....

A few members have suggested they think this is the best way to go,

Paul
Who are these few members you talk about certainly no one on this forum up to know wants to see 2 section's so just put it back to the way it was and we will police it ourselves if some one is getting out of hand we will send round the boys and give them a Glasgow kiss [][]......this is a situation that should not have occurred if the powers that be had taken notice of the issues that where concerning members of this region ,,,so let us end this once and for all and get back to what the forum is all about interaction between consulting adults .So please no more thank you

 

[Catherine]

Brian, I thought I could hear strains of ""Flower of Scotland" as I ran past your house this morning.......I'm right behind you...when do we march south []

 

[kitchens]

Some off us have already started and should be in Carlisle by midnight [][][]

 

[poprock]

You usually drive a lot faster than that "¦