davidcross
New member
Viewing a 993s cat D'd in 2008. 25k miles from new fully inspected. Thoughts on valuation ????
Cat d 993s
- Thread starter davidcross
- Start date
Gordon Attar
New member
David
A 25k C2S is going to be worth early £42/3k's with the C4S a few k more at £44/45k, so knock 10k of and go from there! Your in the price area of a 60/70k non damaged car.
Bear in mind in 2008 an insuarnce company may also placed say a £35k value on the car and based the decision of that!
Cat C is a write off, Cat D is uneconomical to repair for instance it had a smack in the front corner, you may need wing (*"?) bonnet, tub or inner wings, lights etc say £10k worth then the assessor is not sure that it may need jig worketc and is there some unseen damage in the opposite corner thats when they start thinking of writing off as a safe route as it might be £20/5k's worth at an OPC, bearing in mind the scrap value they decide to write off
So you need to see the damage via photographs initially and hopefully they have the list from the insurance company, if your lucky the original owner bought it back. Then if you are happy with your initial viewing and inspection, then get it checked and inspected by a specialist to make sure there is no residual issues.
An example of a cat c value on a C2S, ie circa 8/10k less at a dealer this one has been reduced and reduced over last 6 months
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2507700.htm
A 25k C2S is going to be worth early £42/3k's with the C4S a few k more at £44/45k, so knock 10k of and go from there! Your in the price area of a 60/70k non damaged car.
Bear in mind in 2008 an insuarnce company may also placed say a £35k value on the car and based the decision of that!
Cat C is a write off, Cat D is uneconomical to repair for instance it had a smack in the front corner, you may need wing (*"?) bonnet, tub or inner wings, lights etc say £10k worth then the assessor is not sure that it may need jig worketc and is there some unseen damage in the opposite corner thats when they start thinking of writing off as a safe route as it might be £20/5k's worth at an OPC, bearing in mind the scrap value they decide to write off
So you need to see the damage via photographs initially and hopefully they have the list from the insurance company, if your lucky the original owner bought it back. Then if you are happy with your initial viewing and inspection, then get it checked and inspected by a specialist to make sure there is no residual issues.
An example of a cat c value on a C2S, ie circa 8/10k less at a dealer this one has been reduced and reduced over last 6 months
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2507700.htm
Gordon Attar
New member
Ooops should have asked what the asking price was.
and it may be worth a visit and a search in pistonheads porsche forum to see if they know the car.
and it may be worth a visit and a search in pistonheads porsche forum to see if they know the car.
David, You really need to get at some of the story - but, as you now know 993s, you are obviously thinking of this as a keeper, so you probably need to worry less about resale value than some would. Cat D can of course include cars "stolen and recovered after insurance pay out" (unlikely, but just because it's Cat D does not mean it has been damaged for certain).
I'd also say, but you probably know already, that a Cat D from a 2008 accident would likely not have been any category of write off if the accident had occurred in 1998 and you would have know nothing about it and paid full price (unless there is tell tale sign of repair).
OK - to answer your question, and without knowing any facts, I'd go with a bit more than Gordon's £10K off a normal S price, say £12k. But you need the facts as clearly you might not be willing to buy at all. £12K off is for "otherwise perfect except for the stain on its character". I'm pushing it high because I think a lot of the price of the S models is hype, so if you are buying hype you expect the get hype!
Anyway, what's wrong with your nice red C4?
I'd also say, but you probably know already, that a Cat D from a 2008 accident would likely not have been any category of write off if the accident had occurred in 1998 and you would have know nothing about it and paid full price (unless there is tell tale sign of repair).
OK - to answer your question, and without knowing any facts, I'd go with a bit more than Gordon's £10K off a normal S price, say £12k. But you need the facts as clearly you might not be willing to buy at all. £12K off is for "otherwise perfect except for the stain on its character". I'm pushing it high because I think a lot of the price of the S models is hype, so if you are buying hype you expect the get hype!
Anyway, what's wrong with your nice red C4?
Gordon Attar
New member
Mark
Trouble with the hype is they are still selling at those prices see pistonheads and have been for the last 5 years!!
Trouble with the hype is they are still selling at those prices see pistonheads and have been for the last 5 years!!
oh yes - agree - and I think the S will carry on at current prices (probably even go up over time) - but I still think people paying for the hype will be more sensitive to the Cat D label than someone who is just after a 993 for the drive (or someone not considering an S because of the price). So I think Cat D impacts an S much more (percentage wise) than a non-S.
davidcross
New member
Tks guys. Mark the red 993 c4 I'm still happy with but just figure this is worth a look. Intresting u say it's a 'keeper' as resale u have to think may be tricky. Anyway I'll report back soon. There are no doubt those that are steaming 'dont touch it'!!!
davidcross
New member
Right, the car was owned in a private collection up till 2006 having done very little miles When it had the crash. Both offside panels were damaged along with front suspension and also somehow the drivers side rear wheel was also stoved in damaging the suspension. None of the other panels or roof were harmed. The insurance company wrongly valued the car at the time of impact at 17k so with the cost of repair deemed in unethical so car D'd it. The car was brought from a salvage yard and repaired which was then bought by the current owner. He had it separately inspected twice before purchase by 2 independant and respected outfits intended to keep it. In he's ownership he's replaced all the suspension with bilstein shocks, had the Geo done and amended any niggles. The car is FULLY serviced with supporting history and all MOT's to confirm mileage. It has RSR mufflers that sound awesome and he's a petrolhead with a 360CS as just one of he's cars. He's in 2 minds to sell it or use it as a project as 911&PW have said they will feature it if he does. The car is too good to use as a donor most think. It needs tidying if u wanted to be very particular and in terms of cost let's just say we're talking under 30k.
PS I've seen the pics of the car after the crash as well.
So what's the verdict??
PS I've seen the pics of the car after the crash as well.
So what's the verdict??
Despite the car seemingly being well looked after, you will still have a car with a cat D mark against it. There will always be a niggling doubt that something in a difficult to get to place isn't quite as good as it should be. Maybe some of the galvanising has been rubbed away to let rust set in, maybe a component isn't quite a straight as it should be etc. I think £40k+ is currently very optimistic for a C4S for all but those sub 30k mile show cars, so a price closer to £26/27k for a cat D is where I'd expect. Personally I wouldn't go there. It's not going to go up in value; a future C4S buyer is going to be picky and I can't see the premium being maintained once the car gets close to 100k miles and has the cat D as well.
davidcross
New member
Fair comment. The stigma is a thing but I think over time that will become less a problem
Gordon Attar
New member
David
Presumably you mean Front wing and door panels, ? bonnet ? rear wing?. O/S/Rear wheel and suspension can be damaged by hitting a kerb as the car is swung round! Odd that the o/s/rear wing or sill were not damaged. I also struggle with the owner only accepting 17k, theres no way he accepted half its value!? Perhaps the £17k was the repair bill i.e. pair of wheels and tyres are easily £2k from Porsche.
Unfortunately the Stigma will always be attached and will only be lessoned by keeping all the photos and inspections with the car for the rest of its life, hopefully you've seen the 2 inspections and the car should be a few k under £30k if your happy with it.
Presumably you mean Front wing and door panels, ? bonnet ? rear wing?. O/S/Rear wheel and suspension can be damaged by hitting a kerb as the car is swung round! Odd that the o/s/rear wing or sill were not damaged. I also struggle with the owner only accepting 17k, theres no way he accepted half its value!? Perhaps the £17k was the repair bill i.e. pair of wheels and tyres are easily £2k from Porsche.
Unfortunately the Stigma will always be attached and will only be lessoned by keeping all the photos and inspections with the car for the rest of its life, hopefully you've seen the 2 inspections and the car should be a few k under £30k if your happy with it.
davidcross
New member
If we agree a price and then go through with the purchase I'll check all inspections and paper work then. I'm looking mid 20's as a purchase price. The 17k must have been the repair bill I think your right. The areas on the pics that were damaged were the offside front wing/ suspension / bonnet and bits around and the offside rear quarter but not the doors. Also the rear suspension was damaged as well.
Gordon Attar
New member
David
Surely you need to read all the paperwork and inspections prior to doing your own one which will cost you money, then based on all of this agree a price!?
Surely you need to read all the paperwork and inspections prior to doing your own one which will cost you money, then based on all of this agree a price!?
davidcross
New member
Price wud b based on all checking out. U guys put big doubts in my mind now :-(
davidcross
New member
26 is the price. I can't work out if that's value or not. Funny how u lot got the price down to the exact grand!
Buy the car on condition and your feelings and if your happy with the price, not peoples opinions be they right our wrong.
As someone else pointed out, if this damage had happened in 1998
it would have been repaired and would not be cat anything and would now be selling at full market value.
A lot of people, even people who say they would not buy a cat car, may well be driving a car that was damaged to the equivalent of cat c or d, but cos it was repaired for the original owner, there is no record of it being damaged.
Personally I think as these cars become older and rarer and good ones harder to find, the cat stigma will become less & less of an issue.
After all people have no problem paying full money for early to middle age 911s, (that frankly if they were a ford escort or similar with the same amount of rotten metal, they would have long since been scrapped)
Yet people often cut out huge amounts of structural metal from these 911s, weld in new & paint them up. then people pay full market value, the only difference is they are not cat anything, they call them restorations.
So I fail to see why its such a big deal and why some people are so anti cat d, these are 14 plus year old cars so by that very fact a lot of them will have had paint, bodywork,rust treatment etc
Gordon Attar
New member
Seems a particularily sensible price, £14 to £16k under retail sellers value, £10k to £12k under private prices.
If you are happy with documents, suspension and geometry checks out and you have it inspected by your specialist or equivalent and everything is fine and you like the car then go for it.
Looking at the Cat C value for the 80k car I posted earlier you can do 60000 miles for approx £6k of depreciation at todays market values, makes a lot of sense to me.
PS dont worry about us we were just concerned advisors
Porker993
New member
There are cat C and D 993Ss doing the rounds for as low as £19,950. Buyers of these cars are interested in superb quality and provenance - what's the point if it's been smacked ?
Sorry it's a bargepole job for me.
Buy a nice, straight low miles NB car for that money, or save up for a proper S.
Sorry it's a bargepole job for me.
Buy a nice, straight low miles NB car for that money, or save up for a proper S.
davidcross
New member
D Ward and Gordon I'm thinking wise words. If it's one I keep for a Good length of time as u say the cat status will erode in time and others will have had plenty of repair issues. Ok this will always cat d but fully documented and also v low mileage. Tks
davidcross
New member
Sorry Porka993 that wasn't in anyway ignore what u said. Your thoughts are equally important my friend [
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