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Cayman 718 GPF Failure

Hi Jeff
Have not looked at these cars yet, have been very busy with the 718 cars trying to work out what's going on.
Have made several attempts to work with Porsche service Managers on this issue but they will not let me in.
It is a shame, because we should be all on the same side.
All we need is Porsche to pull in a faulty car, check the vacuum reading on the seperator, physical check the diaphragm, check the oil seperator pipes for excess oil.
Check the inlet valves for contamination, make sure the exhaust is blocked. Take samples of the ash from the filter to confirm contamination.
Just a few things to do.
 
Hi David. Thank you for the comprehensive write up and for the considerable effort you have gone to to investigate this issue. There are a few points I would add in a quest for a better understanding of what is going on in the Porsche network:

- The examples we have come across appear to be 2019 cars only. I wonder what might have changed in later cars - the AOS?
- I would have expected more 'noise' on the subject. Perhaps some owners have had their GPF changed under warranty or have just paid up.
- As David points out, we don't understand why there have been no instances of this issue from Boxster owners. Is it just that no-one has said anything or is there a difference in the engine specification?
- We don't know how long lasting the replecement GPF solution lasts. Presumably the blockage was the effect, and the cause was something else which, if not addressed, could block again.

If any owners have experience and, or, knowledge to add, please update this topic or PM me directly, in confidence.

One major result from David's work is that owners do not have to accept the very costly 'replace all' solution from the OPC. There are ways of cleaning up the GPF's. Thank you.

And finally, it is very important that the correct oil is used. (Mobil 1 ESP with the green label) Do check the specification on your service invoice parts list.
 
David ...

Would running the oil level at `less than max` help here i.e. less potential carry over from to the AOS Block Breathing system ?
 
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Just a point on the 2.0 is that the GPF and Cat seem to be one intergrated unit whereas on the 4.0 in the 718 both are seperate. Could the combining of both also be a contributing factor especially when it comes to cost?

I'm a big believer of an 'Italian Tune' to clear out any crud that could be lingering in the power plant. Maybe doing this every once in a while could be of benefit??

I'll always remember the words spoken to me by a Porsche Technician a couple of years ago, ' The cars we have in the workshop that have issues are the ones that have hardly any miles on them'. In short, get out and drive them folks. That's what they were built for.
 
Wollemi said:
Thank you David (Cyclemotor 1958) for that very clear and comprehensive exposition on the GPF failure problem.
Hope all is well with you and hope perhaps you'll come along again to the club night sometime.
Happy Christmas to you!
Graham
Click to expand...
Morning Graham
See you Wednesday night at the Bluebell
Dave
 
Interesting to hear that the cat convertor and GPF are a combined unit on the F-4T engine Dan. Isn’t cat failure is covered by the extended warranty? If so it makes it even more unbelievable that the GPF isn’t covered as well because cat replacement means that the GPF will be replaced automatically, so why not the other way round?

Jeff
 
You'd have thought so Jeff as it's classed as a filter. Unfortunately the cost of the Cat/GPF combo is £2800 for the part alone.

Not great and really should be covered by warranty. Maybe Porsche AG should be made aware.

Dan
 
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Hi to all Cayman 718 owner's,
Following on with our research on the GPF issues, could I ask have we had any 2.5 engine cars with GPF failures.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Regards
David
 
Hi its me again,
Just had another 718 cayman driver contact me regarding his blocked GPF filter, the car has failed the mot test and his dealer wants to charge him the usual £7,500.00.
Last year I posted some information on the Porsche Cub forum which covered the above issue.
Has you know I worked for the last 6.5 years in an independent Porsche specialist in North Yorkshire I have been involved in my own research regarding issues with oil/air seperators and what happens when they start to fail.
I have helped a few 718 Cayman owners in not having to pay for their GPF filters, they gave their feedback on this forum.
In all my dealings with the these cases it was interesting to see that none of these drivers saw the GPF filter warning light on the dash. This specific light is to warn the driver to regenerate the filter as described in the owners manual.
They all had the engine management light come on, that resulted in a blocked GPF.
Why isnt the early warning light not coming on, and why on every occasion, when the driver has asked, what caused this fault, they were told by the dealer that the GPF as failed.
GPF filters should last well over 100k miles and beyond if the electronic regeneration by the car works, and the filter is free from engine oil contamination.
I would like to ask have any drivers of these cars that have had the GPF filters fitted, did they see this warning light on the dashboard.
Would also like to ask any Porsche dealer, and Porsche Technical, whats the DTC code for the Gpf early warning light when it comes on.
Spoke today with a friend of mine that’s had a new GPF fitted recently, and he is seeing white smoke on start up, when car is left overnight.
This could be the oil seperator finally giving up, he will check his car tomorrow and try and remove the oil filler cap while it's smoking, if the cap is difficult to remove, this would confirm the oil / seperator as failed.
We need to find a solution for this problem as soon as possible, if the light comes on, it will fail the Mot test, then the car is off the road.
I have carried out research on other makes of cars with Gpf filters fitted, and they all have early warning lights coming up on the dashboard. This light instructs the driver to drive the car drive the car using the de acceleration technique to generate more heat in the exhaust to aid regeneration.

Please contact me on 07769 590119, with any information that could help us put more pressure on Porsche to fix this fault once and for all.
All the best
David


Attachments​

 
Hi its me again, sorry forgot to mention the differential pressure sensor. It's function is to monitor the incoming pressure and the out going pressure in the Gpf filter. This information is fed back to the engine ECU.
Could it be that this sensors range of operation is allowing the GPF to get to full of ash before it reports back to the ECU.
Not sure what's fitted to the 718, they are available in up/down stream pressure (dual) and single analog output formats.
Worth a look, I would say
Dave

 
Hi its me again,
Just seen today a Porsche Val report, (vehicle analysis log), showing zero voltage on the differential pressure sensor, on a 718 Cayman with a blocked GPF filter.
Will update you when I get some more information.
Also, I have two videos of white smoke coming from the tail pipes of 2 Cayman 718 cars that have had recently new GPF filters replaced, wonder if the AOS are starting to fail.
Remember the early cars with AOS failures, always had white smoke from the tailpipes from cold.
After speaking to quite a few Porsche dealers, it appears they don't use a manometer to check for excessive vacuum on the AOS.
Has I have previously said on this forum I suspect that these AOS are faulting, and if this was the case, the GPF could be over loaded with oil contamination
And something really odd, is we have not seen any model year 2020 Caymans with this GPF issue.
I am sure that the Part number from model year 2019 AOS was changed to a different one going forward, could this be the clue.
Any feed back from this post would be great
Regards
Dave
 
An interesting article Dave and thanks for posting. Hopefully you’ll be able to find something official somewhere from Porsche that states such and completely blows their refusal of warranty claims out of the water.

If it hasn’t been said, I have to thank you for your hard work and time you’ve given to help those that have been having issues.

Keep it up.

Dan.
 
Hi Dave,

One question about this issue, could blockages be caused by fuel quality?

Porsche have delayed the introduction of PPF (GPF) in some markets because of poor fuel quality. This article, https://www.carsales.com.au/editori...ps-on-first-petrol-particulate-filter-117217/, outlines the situation in Australia. The article states that high sulphur content will "kill the filter and potentially damage the engine" and goes on to claim that "Most companies insist the cut-off to prevent problems is just 10 parts-per-million". Legislation in the UK limits sulphur to "0.1% by mass". I don't know how this equates to ppm but 10 is 0.001% of 1,000,000. Now that we are out of the EU do we have lower standards for sulphur in petrol? Could Porsche be supplying products to a market which does not meet the minimum fuel quality standards for cars with GPF fitted?
 
Hi Ian,
Good point, we have to use good oil, that's low in sulphur, if we don't Porsche and the dealers are quick to tell us we have damaged our GPF filters, so pay up for a new one.

These filters maybe not be able cope with to much sulphur, either from the fuel, or the oil.

I still believe that its the engine electronics that are not monitoring the accumulated ash in the GPF
The ash is non-combustible, its what causes it to accumulate in the exhaust filtering system, Metallic additives in oil are the largest contributor to unburned ash accumulation in both DPF and GPF.
These metallic additives are in the oil to protect the engine from wear and tear deposits, so are we
compromising our exhaust systems, for extended engine life.

Porsche, like many other manufactures say its ok to have 2 year service intervals, so the oil stays in longer, doing more damage, not to mention possible oil contamination from the oil/air separator's putting more pollution back into the GPF filter.

If the ash/oil content in the exhaust was monitored correctly by the differential pressure sensor, and the driver was warned that the ash/oil level was at a level were it needed the driver to help with a regeneration, it wouldn't matter how frequently this happened, as the vehicle electronics would be in control at last.

I would like to offer a reward of £50.00 to any driver of a Cayman 2019 718 2.0 with a GPF fitted, who could send me a photo of the GPF warning light on their dashboard, that is recorded in the drivers manual. And the DTC trouble code found when the car went in for repair at a Porsche garage workshop.

Hopefully with all these GPF failures at the moment, this shouldn't take long.

I had another driver contact me this week with GPF replacement issues, that's two this week.

We need to get a grip of this issue, as time is against us, these cars are getting older.

And back to my original question in a previous post to Porsche Technical, why do we not seem to have this problem in 2020 vehicles onwards.

It would be nice if Porsche Technical could comment on this forum at some point, here's hoping, we will be getting to the truth at some point, but help would be appreciated.



Regards
David
 
Cyclemotor1958 said:
Hi Ian,
Good point, we have to use good oil, that's low in sulphur, if we don't Porsche and the dealers are quick to tell us we have damaged our GPF filters, so pay up for a new one.

These filters maybe not be able cope with to much sulphur, either from the fuel, or the oil.

I still believe that its the engine electronics that are not monitoring the accumulated ash in the GPF
The ash is non-combustible, its what causes it to accumulate in the exhaust filtering system, Metallic additives in oil are the largest contributor to unburned ash accumulation in both DPF and GPF.
These metallic additives are in the oil to protect the engine from wear and tear deposits, so are we
compromising our exhaust systems, for extended engine life.

Porsche, like many other manufactures say its ok to have 2 year service intervals, so the oil stays in longer, doing more damage, not to mention possible oil contamination from the oil/air separator's putting more pollution back into the GPF filter.

If the ash/oil content in the exhaust was monitored correctly by the differential pressure sensor, and the driver was warned that the ash/oil level was at a level were it needed the driver to help with a regeneration, it wouldn't matter how frequently this happened, as the vehicle electronics would be in control at last.

I would like to offer a reward of £50.00 to any driver of a Cayman 2019 718 2.0 with a GPF fitted, who could send me a photo of the GPF warning light on their dashboard, that is recorded in the drivers manual. And the DTC trouble code found when the car went in for repair at a Porsche garage workshop.

Hopefully with all these GPF failures at the moment, this shouldn't take long.

I had another driver contact me this week with GPF replacement issues, that's two this week.

We need to get a grip of this issue, as time is against us, these cars are getting older.

And back to my original question in a previous post to Porsche Technical, why do we not seem to have this problem in 2020 vehicles onwards.

It would be nice if Porsche Technical could comment on this forum at some point, here's hoping, we will be getting to the truth at some point, but help would be appreciated.



Regards
David
Click to expand...

David,

I doubt if Porsche Technical (Porsche GB - Reading) is aware of this Forum and even if they were, they would not engage given the BS arena that we live in ...

Maybe ... the club hierarchy could take an interest in this issue and refer it back to them, given the club`s mandate of being here for it`s members !
 
It would be interesting to see if something from 2020 that showed a change in the GPF failure figures. I do know that the oil grade changed from A40 to C40 and has now changed again to C40 GT (for GT cars).

Dan
 
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