Cayman and Boxster 718-6?

[Motorhead]

Just to report that an eagle-eyed chap on PH has spotted a 982 (718) GTS 4.0 Cayman and Boxster with 399 PS on a German insurance website.

That’s going to give a performance quite close to that of a GT4/Spyder and the main difference is going to be in the handling. It’s going to be interesting to see the price-point when they arrive.

Jeff

 

[Sunder81]

Hi Jeff, interesting, was just going to post a question on this as a fellow on You Tube was suggesting strong rumours of the F6 718 below the GT4/ Spyder. So will this be marketed as GTS? Seems the F4 sales has tanked badly.

 

[PaulJ]

Just to report that an eagle-eyed chap on PH has spotted a 982 (718) GTS 4.0 Cayman and Boxster with 399 PS on a German insurance website.

That’s going to give a performance quite close to that of a GT4/Spyder and the main difference is going to be in the handling. It’s going to be interesting to see the price-point when they arrive.

Jeff

Back in the game. Perhaps my current Porsche (981 GTS) won't be my last after all...

 

[ralphmusic]

Hi Jeff, interesting, was just going to post a question on this as a fellow on You Tube was suggesting strong rumours of the F6 718 below the GT4/ Spyder. So will this be marketed as GTS? Seems the F4 sales has tanked badly.

It's like a 981 Spyder in terms of engine, suspension and brakes

 

[Motorhead]

Hi Jeff, interesting, was just going to post a question on this as a fellow on You Tube was suggesting strong rumours of the F6 718 below the GT4/ Spyder. So will this be marketed as GTS? Seems the F4 sales has tanked badly.

Hi Sunder,

Porsche had Cayman and Boxster F-6 718s running around the 'Ring in April/May as I recall, one of them with PDK too, so it's not recent news.

The German insurance website mentioned above lists the cars as GTS, presumably as a replacement for the current F-4T cars. Although the F-4T cars sell well in China where road tax is based upon engine capacity, I think there's been a lot of resistance in the US (perhaps less so in Europe and elsewhere?). I wouldn't say that 718 sales have tanked - Porsche still sell plenty of mid-engined cars and undoubtedly there are other factors involved other than the fact that it has a 4-pot turbo engine, despite what the mags and vocal n/a F-6 Porsche enthusiasts might say.

As Ralph has noted, apart from the new engine the F-6 GTS most probably will have the same suspension and brakes as the current F-4T car which are very similar to the 981 Spyder set-up.

Jeff

 

[StevenG]

Just to report that an eagle-eyed chap on PH has spotted a 982 (718) GTS 4.0 Cayman and Boxster with 399 PS on a German insurance website.

That’s going to give a performance quite close to that of a GT4/Spyder and the main difference is going to be in the handling. It’s going to be interesting to see the price-point when they arrive.

Jeff

Back in the game. Perhaps my current Porsche (981 GTS) won't be my last after all...

My thoughts exactly.

 

[PHB1969]

Hi Jeff, interesting, was just going to post a question on this as a fellow on You Tube was suggesting strong rumours of the F6 718 below the GT4/ Spyder. So will this be marketed as GTS? Seems the F4 sales has tanked badly.

You can look at the howmanyleft website, that may give an indication, although it is pure numbers and may not be totally representative unless there is consideration of other external factors and maybe a comparison to other models / makes to see if they are any industry wide themes (eg declining car sales, declining sports car sales etc).

Currently on a tablet else would have had a look.

 

[Motorhead]

The word was that the F-6 718 GTS twins would be announced before the end of this year, but that's now a forlorn hope. There could be an opportunity at the Geneva show in March 2020, but I'm sure that the cars will have the PDK option and it remains to be seen if all the development work and more onerous WLTP testing will have been done by then.

If as it seems likely 718 production is going to continue into 2022 then probably it will be due a refresh next year (with an electronic dashboard and a reduced button count like the 992?), so Porsche could perhaps wait until Q4 for an announcement along with the PDK GT4 in advance of the GT4 RS in 2021.

Just thinking aloud really.

Jeff

 

[Twinfan]

Yep, there are rumours of a second refresh for the 981/982 platform so that would make sense to launch the GTS 4.0 as part of the refresh. However, there are rumours of no F4T GTS build slots being available so it may come sooner or there may be a gap between the versions.

I could see the GTS 4.0 coming mid-late 2020 and the swansong ICE Cayster GT4RS coming in early-mid 2021.

 

[Motorhead]

It looks as though it’s out doing some winter testing.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/porsche-718-cayman-gts-40-spied-for-first-time/ar-BBYC2H6?ocid=spartanntp#interstitial=2

Although a power output of 400hp sounds about right, the torque will have to be limited owing to the capacity of the manual transmission, although as with the F-4T GTS this could be greater when the PDK transmission is fitted.

If production is due to extend into 2021/22 then a refresh is certainly on the cards. Maybe we’ll be seeing a new electronic dashboard along the lines of that introduced for the 992 as well as a lower button count on the centre console?

A Geneva release? Maybe, but will all the WLTP PDK testing be completed by then? Frankfurt is another option and is more in line with the timing of the anticipated GT4 PDK release.

Jeff

 

[Motorhead]

Well, it looks as though the 718 GTS 4.0 twins are here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THSh0U_66C0&feature=youtu.be

Nice video. The Boxster looks really striking in that colour.

Jeff

 

[StevenG]

Oh cool! I didn’t actually expect it to be official so soon!

 

[Motorhead]

More details from the Porsche Newsroom here:

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2020/products/porsche-718-gts-4-0-models-boxster-cayman-19733.html

Apparently both models will be available at German dealerships from the end of March 2020, so it looks as though the official presentation of the cars will be at Geneva in early March. The Porsche Configurator site gives the prices for the Cayman and Boxster as £64,088 and £65,949 respectively.

Expect high demand..!

Jeff

 

[Twinfan]

I've just had a quick look on the configurator and they are HIGHLY configurable - many interior and colour options. Lots of choice for everyone.

Like you say Jeff, I think these will be popular although you can easily rack up the price of one. I got to £80k for a green one without PCCBs....

 

[Motorhead]

Agreed Dave. Plenty of choice there, but even in base form the GTS has a decent equipment level - by Porsche standards anyway.!

With the excellent standard sports seats and what I consider should be included on a £60k+ car I got to £73k, more than £2k short of a GT4 starting price, which makes it an attractive proposition for many punters. I would think that there wouldn't be much difference in the on-road performance between the two cars - expect some interesting back-to-back comparisons in the press..!

The Osnabrück production line will be working flat-out for some time to meet demand, from the US especially.

Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

..and the high emissions mean first year tax is £1,815 which will no doubt surprise some potential buyers.

 

[Twinfan]

Indeed.

Could it steal some 911 sales?

 

[Motorhead]

Yes, a nasty sting in the tail for any £40k+ polluting car Ralph - par for the course I'm afraid.

Just looking at some figures for the GTS (GT4 in parenthesis):

Power: 400PS @ 7,000rpm [420PS @ 7,600rpm]

Torque: 420Nm from 5,000 to 6,500rpm [420Nm from 5,000 to 6,800rpm]

Top speed: 182mph [188mph]

0-100kph: 4.5secs [4.4secs]

As usual, just a bit of DME tweaking to restrict the revs and power? I wonder how long it will take the US tuners to reverse that..!? We know that the 4.0L engine is good for 7,800rpm in the GT4 but I wonder if the GTS engine is running a slightly different mechanical spec which limits the revs to 7,000rpm*?

Jeff

*Edit: Correction - I just noticed that Porsche says in its blurb that the engine runs to 7,800rpm, although max power is produced at 7,000rpm.

 

[ralphmusic]

As usual, just a bit of DME tweaking to restrict the revs and power? I wonder how long it will take the US tuners to reverse that..!? We know that the 4.0L engine is good for 7,600rpm in the GT4 but I wonder if the GTS engine is running a slightly different mechanical spec which limits the revs to 7,000rpm?

Jeff

Yes all in the ECU, probably the throttle opening being restricted as with the 981 3.4 BS/CS/GTS/911 hierarchy. I still have the dyno run data in 100 rpm increments showing CS throttle openings, which started to reduce from around 4.5k revs, as I recall.

 

[Motorhead]

Yes, restricting throttle opening to limit power is a well-established Porsche procedure Ralph.

As we know, torque is limited by the Getrag manual transmission's capacity, so no surprise that the GTS (in F-4T and F-6 guises) and the GT4 have the same max torque. I'm rather surprised that there's no PDK option just yet, but we're not expecting it to be available on the GT4 until later this year so I assume it will be introduced across the whole of the F-6 718 range then. No doubt WLTP is playing its part and I guess that Porsche are anxious to get the cars out to market ASAP to maximise return on their significant investment in the new engine.

Jeff