Cayman GT4 if only Porsche would let it Open its Lungs ....

carreraboy · Sep 1, 2016

Never in my 40 plus years of Porsche ownership and driving experience have I ever come across the most blatant market place fixing by the Porsche AG accountants.

i had the very great pleasure of being driven round Spa recently in a GT4 Clubsport. Piloted by Chris Whittle who can peddle for England. The car was fantastic in every way, handling, traction, performance, carrying speed through all the corners and Chris exploring it's limits Especially in B1 and B2, the late braking and near suicide dives through Le Source up to and through Eau Rouge. And beyond. A real joy and it all shouted Porsche.

but ....

Then having undone all the harnessing stepped out of this incredible and well peddled machine, something struck me.

I could see images of teutonic accountants huddled round a back office in Stuutgart with clipboards, graphs and engineer reports, Wally Roll Bars feedback .... Diss is Bad news Meine Beanein Koonters ... Der GT4 must be silenced. .... Vee must not let it be faster and more competent than our GT3. We must mute it ..... Give it manual only ... Only 380 BHP ... Stifle it's breathing .... And play with the ECU.

This is not the first time, the marketing machine has manipulated some great cars ... Only to unleash the final incarnation the GT4RS, but only when the GT3 moves up a nearly now impossible evolution.

Other than a very rewarding and honest session in a well driven genuine 968 Clubsport true non sunroof lightweight (thank you Paul) my other Ride in a PDK GT3 991 was another true big grin moment. The accountants had certainly not held back, great car .... God knows how the RS goes!

MJB · Sep 1, 2016

I don't think that it's the accountants, more a company decision that the 911 must always remain at the top of the range regardless. The Cayman has been crying out for full development ever since it was introduced but nothing was ever going to be allowed to outshine the model on which the company has built its reputation and so fulfilling the potential of the mid-engined cars has always been restrained.

This has become something of a handicap in international GT racing though, where the 911 is now being consistently outgunned by the opposition. Aside from winning the GT championship by a very slender margin last year things have been going this way for some time and this cannot do the image of the car or the company any good. It will be interesting to see how they choose to solve this problem.

ralphmusic · Sep 1, 2016

If you don't like the Porsche product, you can modify it.

If you want a little more power, here is a PowerKit and 4.0L engine upgrade.. https://m.facebook.com/st...m%2Fvideo.php&_rdr

Also Ehresmann told me when we met in June that he had a GT4 Manthey Clubsport on order, and that over winter he was going to fit a stroker kit to take it to 4.0L, targeting 500PS.

So I just have another 85PS to aim for..

ChrisW · Sep 1, 2016

Thanks Des, You paint a very exciting picture from the passenger seat --- though not as exciting as it is from the drivers seat, I promise

With regards to geo / power / and general go faster. There is no limit to the "make it faster" game --- and part of the excitement of the GT4 is therefore in keeping it standard --- and still overtaking the faster cars.

The most exciting was Croft in the wet last Thursday, I only gave one serious passenger ride because from Tower to Sunny-in I was starting to worry myself --- the "what if something does go wrong" either on the way into or the way out of Jim Clark Esses was too close to being a calculated risk -- with a passenger !

carreraboy · Sep 1, 2016

Once the warranties expire you will see the serious people Modify these cars, the premium will have vanished by then too ....

Back to the 911 losing its place in the GT Series, wait for the mid engined V8 ... yes the 998.

game on.

chris you are safe as houses .....

mikeklein · Sep 2, 2016

I've had loads of 911s over the years in a variety of forms but recently tried a bog standard Cayman and fell in love and bought one.

I think Porsche have either created a big headache for themselves or it's a very well thought through plan. Sure, the Cayman is way under powered. They all are. However, they are beautifully balanced and undoubtedly the longterm way forward for the racing marque. So, what are Porsche to do ? If they pile in and offer the Cayman with everything they can they'd immediately hit their 911 sales, so they offer limited and cheaper cars as an alternative. Then, over the years, as word gets round, the Cayman is gradually and gently uprated. It may take twenty, thirty years or more but Porsche aren't in a hurry. And eventually the Cayman will become the flagship and the one to buy if you're a racer.

It's called evolution, not revolution. I may of course be totally wrong and they really didn't think their plan through and have shot themselves in the foot because the Cayman is the most beautifully balanced car I've ever driven (and I'd had loads of mid-engined Ferraris too).

MrDemon · Sep 2, 2016

It's a no brainer for any GT4 owner to have 420BHp and adjustable sus.

I have done the latter as to have fixed rear toe links but every thing else is adjustable seems daft, as YOU CANNOT adjust anything without adjusting rear toe links.

it may as well be all fixed like a normal Cayman !!!

Just doing that has transformed the car for me , if it were a keeper it would already have 420bhp, but Mine is going up for sale, so no engine mods for me this time.

GT4 is a great platform though if you spend 3 or 4 k at one, but as it laps the ring faster than a 997 GT3 they had to hold it back A LOT !

My R is just more enjoyable for me as is the Spyder.

spyderwhite · Sep 3, 2016

MrDemon said:
but Mine is going up for sale, so no engine mods for me this time.

My R is just more enjoyable for me as is the Spyder.

Agree that the 987 spyder is a very special car and for me a better driver than the R , but the CR is not a car I would buy over a regular S especially at the current price gap it's just not worth the nearly 40/50% more than a similar age/mileage CS perhaps 20% max for an extremely well specd one owner car!

So what have you decided to swap the 4 for?

I can only see me swapping out for a 991gts or the new 991.2 gt3 manual of course or from Porsches back catalogue!

But most certainly not another marque!

flat6 · Sep 3, 2016

mikeklein said:
And eventually the Cayman will become the flagship and the one to buy if you're a racer.

I think the Cayman will stay where it is at its price point and a mid-engined car will be introduced above the 911 in the £200K bracket to take on the mid-engined rivals such as Ferrari, Lamborghini, Mclaren etc, both on the road and in racing. There is room for such a car above the 911 and below the 918 and it would make more sense to add a mid-engined car there to take over from the 911 than take forward what they have positioned as a cheaper car to the 911. Just speaking in terms of making money - the Cayman is of course a great platform and very capable. But Porsche will make you dig deep for whatever takes over from the 911 and in terms of brand management, a 650 to 700hp mid-engined supercar car above the 911 will do the 911 brand no harm at all I think. However a £80 to 90K 450hp Cayman would, so less likely to happen I reckon. Much more profitable to sell cars at all levels than to have one replace the other...

tscaptain · Sep 3, 2016

mikeklein said:
Then, over the years, as word gets round, the Cayman is gradually and gently uprated. It may take twenty, thirty years or more but Porsche aren't in a hurry.

Now there's a thought. Anyone who would like to predict what, if anything, we'll be driving in 20 to 30 years time is truly gifted! I doubt it will be petrol powered though. Not that it will affect me......[

]

flat6 · Sep 5, 2016

If it wasn't frustrating enough that Porsche would put 400hp in their Macan Turbo SUV but not in their Cayman sports car, there's now a Macan Turbo Performance pack with 440hp. Proof that it's not about evolution - it's product placement :-( It doesn't need to take 20 to 30 years, nor did it need to take 10 years to introduce the GT4. It's not some complex feat of engineering to make a mid-engined Porsche engineered platform handle 385hp after 10 years from launch of the first Cayman. Part of the excitement about the GT4 is that they've made us wait so long for such a good car. The Macan is getting performance upgrades much sooner.

http://www.porsche.com/uk...o-performance-package/

MrDemon · Sep 5, 2016

The Pamamera is faster round the ring than a GT4 now !!! the new one did 7.38 !

mikeklein · Sep 5, 2016

flat6 said:
If it wasn't frustrating enough that Porsche would put 400hp in their Macan Turbo SUV but not in their Cayman sports car, there's now a Macan Turbo Performance pack with 440hp. Proof that it's not about evolution - it's product placement :-( It doesn't need to take 20 to 30 years, nor did it need to take 10 years to introduce the GT4. It's not some complex feat of engineering to make a mid-engined Porsche engineered platform handle 385hp after 10 years from launch of the first Cayman. Part of the excitement about the GT4 is that they've made us wait so long for such a good car. The Macan is getting performance upgrades much sooner.

http://www.porsche.com/uk...o-performance-package/

Actually, I think you're right about that too but what I was referring to incorporated the notion that humans would evolve to accept the Cayman as the natural successor to the 911.

Of course Porsche could have put a big power engine into the Cayman much earlier but then they wouldn't have been able to extract as much value from their development. Most of the time evolution moves in small steps in order to extract value and its only in rare cases of genetic mutations that new species occur. If the market is out there, you can't really blame Porsche for maximising value. That an evolutionary process too

Laurence Gibbs · Sep 10, 2016

I guess i'm in a minority here but, i think the GT4 has just the right amount of power. It's plenty quick enough for most track days and even at the longer faster tracks it's a very rapid machine. It has a nice delicacy of power Vs handling. No doubt you can always go faster if that floats yer boat. Just think it's fine as is.

The only thing i would want is a more GT style to the delivery i.e. shorter gearing. That's about it.

spyderwhite · Sep 10, 2016

Laurence Gibbs said:
I guess i'm in a minority here but, i think the GT4 has just the right amount of power. It's plenty quick enough for most track days and even at the longer faster tracks it's a very rapid machine. It has a nice delicacy of power Vs handling. No doubt you can always go faster if that floats yer boat. Just think it's fine as is.

The only thing i would want is a more GT style to the delivery i.e. shorter gearing. That's about it.

I think along with the shorter gearing the engine needs to breathe better at the higher end of rev range 5k plus if that means a few extra hp then the car would be perfect!

MrDemon · Sep 11, 2016

It's not about going faster it is about matching the chassis to the engine which makes the GT4 feel under powered.

the cayman R is slower but the engine match to the car is better so the car is more enjoyable to drive.

also the new 911 R seems a good match, I feel very much short changed in the GT4 :-(

spyderwhite · Sep 11, 2016

You feel short changed with the gt4 well I felt robbed in the 987 CR![

]

we would all like a 991R. but that ain't going to happen for 99.9% of us!

so I presume you are holding on to your short changed gt4 in the hope of gaining favour with your OPC for a crack at the 991.2 gt3! Good choice if it is as good as the 991R and I can't say I blame you!

MrDemon · Sep 12, 2016

yes that's the rub, my OPC while not on a promise for a GT3 would want my GT4 to even have a sniff at a manual 991.2 GT3.

Steve Brookes · Sep 12, 2016

spyderwhite said:
You feel short changed with the gt4 well I felt robbed in the 987 CR![]

Why so? [&:]

In my view the CR was an improvement on what was already a great car. i.e. a little lighter, a little bit more powerful, a little more focused. It was never meant to be a leap change in performance and if you add up all the stuff that came as standard compared to what you would pay to spec them on a CS, it was a relative bargain when bought new.