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Cayman GT4: Where are we up 2 now? Déjà vu Edition

Motorhead said:
I have to agree with your observations David. It's probably a red herring re the GT4.
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I'm not so sure Jeff, I think it IS the next GT4. The poster of the pics on Rennlist has said Porsche employees have asked him to remove them, and the car looks very "finished" to me - no dodgy gaffa tape, no mis-matched parts etc.

I could see how a GTS base with a different diffuser and a spoiler could be a very cost-effective way to get a GT4 in the correct price range. Add in a cheap (non-GT3) NA engine and there you go. £75k target price achieved...

 
Yes, that's certainly possible David. I'd forgotten that the 718 side-scoops are much bigger than those on the 981 and should be more than adequate for the n/a flat-6 engine. But what about the essential bonnet vent for the front central radiator? And they'll have to add mesh to the front intakes otherwise it's not a proper GT car..!

£75k target price? I'd have thought that Porsche will try for something around £70k, which is possible with a "parts bin special", and most 981 GT4s seem to be optioned to +£10k minimum.

Jeff

 
Speaking for the tiny minority of 718 supporters...........

I think you are on the right tack Ralph.

I fear the bean-counters at Porsche will not be keen on spending a lot of money on combustion engine development and re-engineering engine bays. Much as I would like to see a 4.0 n/a GT4 with PDK option, I don't think this will happen.

The electric era is dawning. An all-electric 4wd Cayman is already being designed at the concept stage. The bean-counters are watching closely.......this is the future.

I'm sticking with my view that Porsche will take the cost effective/highest profit option and go for the flat-4 turbo engine on the next Cayman GT4 evolution.

Tin hat time and head down for the incoming................

Brian

 
Brian,

The next GT4 will be 4.0L NA, whether it will have PDK is uncertain.

I installed a 3.8L in my 981S because I wanted PDK and so turned down a GT4. I then went on a journey replacing suspension, brakes and wheels. That journey had a large first mover risk and cost element as some things worked and others did not. Starting with a turbo 718 would be a lot cheaper because of lower engine cost and less experimentation.

So an alternative for me if the GT4.2 is manual only would be a PDK 718S with 450PS power upgrade, my suspension mods, Brembo GT brakes or PCGB callipers with Brembo disks, and some aero. A GT4.2 NA would struggle to keep up.

 
Ralph,

You are probably right about the next GT4 being 4.0lt n/a. I was just trying to imagine the board room discussion at Porsche when the subject came up.

A very brave decision of yours to go for the 3.8L conversion and all the other associated mods to the base 981 CS PDK. Hats off to you. I also agree with your thoughts on using the 718 as a base for a future modified road and track car.

I'm not exaggerating when I report on my thread the hugely capable dynamic qualities of the 718 Cayman S as I have specced it. As a platform, with this 2.5L flat-4 turbo engine there is considerable potential for producing a GT type version at minimal development costs for Porsche. The extra cooling "smile" duct on the front will be needed on the 718 as the power increases. High powered turbo engines need extra cooling, so I think the GT4 "smile" duct will appear on the 718 soon.

Regarding the spy photos, could this be Porsche developing a new 718 Cayman R?

Brian

 
BJ Innes said:
Regarding the spy photos, could this be Porsche developing a new 718 Cayman R?
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I said that myself on the PH thread. We may have that instead of a GT4...

 
That could well be, David.

The 987R wasn't particularly successful but there's no reason a 718R wouldn't sell. However, it would have to be instead of a GT4 as the two cars would have very similar performance (and I've a feeling that the R would out-gun the GT4).

I've not really been following 718 Spyder developments but isn't that car rumoured to have the n/a 4.0L flat-6 engine? If that's the case then I can't see Porsche not bringing out a Mk2 GT4 to spread engine development costs.

Maybe next time round Porsche will up production numbers for both cars to meet demand. After all, unless I'm mistaken, at launch didn't AP say that the GT4 wasn't going to be a limited production car?

Jeff

 
595 GT4s made it to the UK, in production terms that's quite a few. The Spyder is rumoured to be NA, but it's not 100% confirmed. I agree both the Spyder and the GT4/R would have the same engine.

I could see a 3.0 turbo'd six from the Carrera S in both cars, less so a four pot.

 
Granted David, but the apparent reason for Porsche adopting an f-4 turbo for the mid-engined cars was that there was insufficient room for an f-6 turbo.

A 718R would be the simple way out but a n/a GT4 is the way AP wants to go, given a free hand. Who knows what we'll end up with?

Jeff

 
They say it won't fit, but I'm sure they could find a way if they really wanted to. I would guess the engine preference order for a hot Cayman would be:

1. NASP six

2. Turbo six

3. Turbo four

Time will tell which way they go I guess!

 
Realistically, I reckon that an f-6 turbo is a non-starter because of the different intercooler arrangements: air-to-air on the 991 and air-to-coolant on the mid-engined cars. Even if AP and his team could shoehorn the f-6 turbo into the engine bay they'd find it difficult to find space for a larger air-to-coolant intercooler mounted on top of the engine and that would be a big job to engineer.

Looks as though we're down to 2-options then.

Jeff

 
Fair points Jeff, I agree on the cooling front. I didn't realise the intercooler systems were different.

NASP six it probably is then, which matches most info gleaned over the last few months.

 
The current NA flat six rather fills the engine compartment, so extra turbo plumbing AND heat will not fit to Porsche standards.

 
Porsche can save themselves a mountain of effort and expense just by concentrating on the flat-4 turbo and further developing the 718 platform. Marketing a 718 R with PDK option is an obvious option to me. I would buy one.

The 987 Cayman R was not a big seller. Now look where it is today. A 718R will also be a slow starter largely due to prejudices against the flat-4 turbo. As an experienced owner of Caymans on road and track for 9 years now, I can unequivocally support the case for developing the 718 platform as it currently exists, including the 4-pot turbo engine.

I also wasn't too keen on the flat-4 sound at first, I got over it.



Brian





 
The GT department is pushing to keep NA as long as it can, then it'll go hybrid surely? I doubt they'll go purely flat four for any models, Cayman included.

 
The performance of the GT4 has proved to be too close to the 991GT3.1 for Porsche's comfort. As a GT4.1 would have to have more performance than a 718S (and now the GTS) that would put it too close to the 991GT3.2. Therefore my bet would be on this next Cayman being a 718R.

We've got a lot of ideas of what it might be and are probably all wrong but it's fun speculating. [:D]

 
I agree with David - AP probably had a hard time justifying to the Board, bean counters and anyone else who would listen that a Cayman GT4 was a viable proposition. Having won the day unequivocably with the car's success he won't want to deplete "his" stable of GT cars without a fight. Plus, we know that he favours a n/a engine solution for the GT4 this time around.

As for the next generation of the car, I'm sure that we're looking at a development of the f-4 turbo with some form of electric motor/generator at the flywheel, but this will be done alongside 911 development.

Jeff

 
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