Cayman R - PDK
- Thread starter colski1961
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Steve Brookes
Moderator
My Cayman R PDK ticks all the boxes for me....very involving and fun in paddle mode on cross country blasts, refined and no stress in auto mode for motorway cruising and traffic jams and extremely capable on track days in sports plus mode (paddle or auto). No regrets about not going manual.
Its all about personal preference. I prefer manual but it doesn't mean PDK is the lesser beast - merely an alternative choice. There is a 50/50 split in PCR's on UK roads (pretty much) which I think underlines that it's simply a choice based on personal preference.
Manual is best though!! [
]
Manual is best though!! [
]
I've driven all of the PDK versions in the Cayman and don't find the 981 better than the 987 although the throttle blip on downshift is novel but hardly necessary, I agree that the EPS lacks feel and the 718S I drove fitted with it was about as bad as they come in a sports chassis, it felt worse than the 981S in fact to me the 981S only seems improved over the 987gen2 in having wider track at the front but as I have PASM in my 987S along with PDK etc I feel that the PASM makes up for the difference in that respect.
But this is more a discussion between the R and 981, GTS being the upgrade between the S and the GT4 but isn't it more an S with some added extras as stock. I must admit that I've not driven an R or a GTS and a more direct comparison would be 987S with options against a 981S with options, I've heard that two mates one with a GTS with PDK outdistanced his mate in a GT4 on a trackday at Silverstone but Cayman R versus Cayman R PDK versus 981S PDK how does that actually stack up in performance.
But this is more a discussion between the R and 981, GTS being the upgrade between the S and the GT4 but isn't it more an S with some added extras as stock. I must admit that I've not driven an R or a GTS and a more direct comparison would be 987S with options against a 981S with options, I've heard that two mates one with a GTS with PDK outdistanced his mate in a GT4 on a trackday at Silverstone but Cayman R versus Cayman R PDK versus 981S PDK how does that actually stack up in performance.
having had virtually all the variants of 987S and 981S I have to disagree Kevan - personally I feel the PDK on the 981S is almost unrecognisably better than the 987 gen 2 cars .maybe you tried a duff one ;-)
my 981 - nearly GTS!! is much the best iteration so far and that includes for me the 718S that I had on loan for 700 miles last autumn
my 981 - nearly GTS!! is much the best iteration so far and that includes for me the 718S that I had on loan for 700 miles last autumn
dyllan said:
I'd agree. I've had PDK on 987.2, 997.2 and 981, and have driven 718 and 991.2 cars. It gets better each time although 9x7.2 to 9x1 was the biggest improvement.
Maybe due to mine being a late 987.2 PDK there were improvements over the earlier cars although the operating computer is only the earlier version but having driven the 981 base and S at the PEC and on the road then more recently a 718S I didn't find them to be immensely improved, throttle blip is fun but not a lot more then that and the gear indicator being in the right hand gauge is a nuisance much better being located in the rev counter as in the 981, I do find that the PDK in my car seems slow in manual unless sport mode is in use and so it usually is in use maybe the 981 has a quicker shift in normal mode which would be good.
Stugoldthorpe
New member
To be fair mine is PDK and I rarely use it in full auto (except in slow traffic) preferring instead to shift 'manually' using the selector stick flicked left and for push pull gearchange. That way you get the best of both worlds and if you like you can pretend you're in the Porsche Cup. there's nothing better than port plus, exhaust set to naughty, and listening to the pop pop pop of the exhaust on upshift. I can't honestly understand why anyone would want a manual box after that. I think most people who hate the PDK Kew it as an auto box as opposed to a semi auto. i think of it as a manual gearbox with auto clutch And like it so much we specced my wife's Polo GTi with the DSG.
Stugoldthorpe
New member
I've never really studied the sequential box on a race car as I rarely drive one, well actually never drive one except in my little 'moments' in the Porsche....
i agree with with your comment - my every day driver is a 2015 BMW 330d Touring with the ZF auto and the stick shift on that is forward to downshift. Now, as my wife's car is a Polo GTi with DSG (same gearbox DNA as the Porsche of course) that is also the 'wrong way round' so I'm used to it. In the BMW I never manual shift on the stick as I use the paddles.
Now, if ANYTHING is counter intuitive it's those ridiculous shift buttons on the standard steering wheel. I'm currently eyeing up some Olympus cameras I have in stock to convert into the Sport Design steering wheel....
i agree with with your comment - my every day driver is a 2015 BMW 330d Touring with the ZF auto and the stick shift on that is forward to downshift. Now, as my wife's car is a Polo GTi with DSG (same gearbox DNA as the Porsche of course) that is also the 'wrong way round' so I'm used to it. In the BMW I never manual shift on the stick as I use the paddles.
Now, if ANYTHING is counter intuitive it's those ridiculous shift buttons on the standard steering wheel. I'm currently eyeing up some Olympus cameras I have in stock to convert into the Sport Design steering wheel....
Brian_Innes
Member
Kevan,
As a 718 CS PDK owner I'm puzzled by two of your comments,
Friday 11th August: "I agree that the EPS lacks feel and the 718S I drove fitted with it was as bad as they come in a sports chassis"
Sunday August 13th: "throttle blip is fun but not a lot more than that, and the gear indicator being located in the right hand gauge is a nuisance, much better being located in the rev counter as in the 981."
While admitting the 718 EPS does not provide the sublime "fizz" that the Cayman R hydraulic steering has, I would disagree that the 718 electric steering is "as bad as they come in a sports chassis."
I have owned various Caymans for a total of 9 years, from the humble 987.1 2.7, to the 987.2 Cayman R. All were manual cars. The steering on my 718 CS as I have specced it, is, in my opinion, an improvement on the earlier EPS systems as fitted to the 981 models. Not only is the steering ratio 10% quicker, the Porsche techies have also tweaked the road feel at the steering wheel to mimic the earlier hydraulic system. The result, in my experience of track and road driving, is one of improvement rather than detriment.
The gear indicator in my 718 PDK is located in the central rev counter dial at 6 o'clock.
Brian
As a 718 CS PDK owner I'm puzzled by two of your comments,
Friday 11th August: "I agree that the EPS lacks feel and the 718S I drove fitted with it was as bad as they come in a sports chassis"
Sunday August 13th: "throttle blip is fun but not a lot more than that, and the gear indicator being located in the right hand gauge is a nuisance, much better being located in the rev counter as in the 981."
While admitting the 718 EPS does not provide the sublime "fizz" that the Cayman R hydraulic steering has, I would disagree that the 718 electric steering is "as bad as they come in a sports chassis."
I have owned various Caymans for a total of 9 years, from the humble 987.1 2.7, to the 987.2 Cayman R. All were manual cars. The steering on my 718 CS as I have specced it, is, in my opinion, an improvement on the earlier EPS systems as fitted to the 981 models. Not only is the steering ratio 10% quicker, the Porsche techies have also tweaked the road feel at the steering wheel to mimic the earlier hydraulic system. The result, in my experience of track and road driving, is one of improvement rather than detriment.
The gear indicator in my 718 PDK is located in the central rev counter dial at 6 o'clock.
Brian
Brian, I have been driving 987 S gen 1 and gen 2 for 10 years and I was referring to my own 987 having the indicator in the dial to the right not the 718 I would very much like to have the indicator in the rev counter as the later cars do.
I don't have throttle blip on the 987 but don't think it more than fun in the later cars as when I drive a manual car I do it with my foot for better meshing, the 987 PDK does throttle matching quite well.
The best development on the 718 to me in driving one for a 24 hour loan was the brakes, plenty of stopping power with little effort and still with a lot of feel in the pedal.
The faster rack on the 718 does to me not feel as good as the 981 which I felt got very bad reception and in fact unfair comparison being a relatively early version of EPS to Porsche but my second car is a BMW Z4 which also has EPS and it is the main failing of that chassis too, maybe if someone in development were to go a similar way to the earlier BMW Mini and have an electric pump running a hydraulic steering system then it would please more drivers as motor speed could be controlled to be a variable effect but it would most likely be a heavier installation. In many cases these days I find it ridiculous that we are using power steering often where it is unnecessary, if the geometry of the steering system is correct then even with the modern wide tyres it is only of much benefit at parking speeds, I only began to drive with any power steering when I came to buying an Audi over 25 years ago and had at that time little experience of power steering as my previous cars had purely manual steering, tyre widths were not much greater ( 10mm ) but now with the development focus being on efficiency to a greater degree in order to reduce emissions maybe it's time they looked at reducing such items as power steering which runs full-time and so not needing to generate so much electricity, maybe one day...Ok my tyres are now 235 not the 175's I ran on manual cars but it is still true that the only time it is truly a benefit is when parking, try steering any modern car when the PS fails, you'll wish it was purely manual.
I don't have throttle blip on the 987 but don't think it more than fun in the later cars as when I drive a manual car I do it with my foot for better meshing, the 987 PDK does throttle matching quite well.
The best development on the 718 to me in driving one for a 24 hour loan was the brakes, plenty of stopping power with little effort and still with a lot of feel in the pedal.
The faster rack on the 718 does to me not feel as good as the 981 which I felt got very bad reception and in fact unfair comparison being a relatively early version of EPS to Porsche but my second car is a BMW Z4 which also has EPS and it is the main failing of that chassis too, maybe if someone in development were to go a similar way to the earlier BMW Mini and have an electric pump running a hydraulic steering system then it would please more drivers as motor speed could be controlled to be a variable effect but it would most likely be a heavier installation. In many cases these days I find it ridiculous that we are using power steering often where it is unnecessary, if the geometry of the steering system is correct then even with the modern wide tyres it is only of much benefit at parking speeds, I only began to drive with any power steering when I came to buying an Audi over 25 years ago and had at that time little experience of power steering as my previous cars had purely manual steering, tyre widths were not much greater ( 10mm ) but now with the development focus being on efficiency to a greater degree in order to reduce emissions maybe it's time they looked at reducing such items as power steering which runs full-time and so not needing to generate so much electricity, maybe one day...Ok my tyres are now 235 not the 175's I ran on manual cars but it is still true that the only time it is truly a benefit is when parking, try steering any modern car when the PS fails, you'll wish it was purely manual.
Brian_Innes
Member
David,
"I agree I found it a little less precise/planted due to the faster turn rate".
I think we are on different planets.......
The quicker rack on the 718 is More precise, not less. The 718 is More planted than previous Caymans, GT4 excepted. I'm including my Cup 2 shod Cayman R in this assessment.
I'll leave it there. I'm obviously in a minority here. My motorsport upbringing obviously puts me in a different world.
Brian
"I agree I found it a little less precise/planted due to the faster turn rate".
I think we are on different planets.......
The quicker rack on the 718 is More precise, not less. The 718 is More planted than previous Caymans, GT4 excepted. I'm including my Cup 2 shod Cayman R in this assessment.
I'll leave it there. I'm obviously in a minority here. My motorsport upbringing obviously puts me in a different world.
Brian
Brian,
Quicker to me meant too sensitive to inputs - handy for easy parking and really, really tight corners on tracks, otherwise a little too twitchy for my taste. I prefer something heavier and more stable. I found my 981 GTS better in that regard, and the GT4 even better again.
I don't think it's your motorsport experience that's influencing you opinion, maybe more your particular physical circumstances and needs? I hope they're not impacting your enjoyment of your 718 too much at the moment by the way []
Quicker to me meant too sensitive to inputs - handy for easy parking and really, really tight corners on tracks, otherwise a little too twitchy for my taste. I prefer something heavier and more stable. I found my 981 GTS better in that regard, and the GT4 even better again.
I don't think it's your motorsport experience that's influencing you opinion, maybe more your particular physical circumstances and needs? I hope they're not impacting your enjoyment of your 718 too much at the moment by the way [
]
The higher ratio rack inevitably will make the car feel more "pointy". I think it's just a matter of preference.
I have to say that I'm with David in prefering a slower steering response, but that's just my driving style. No doubt Brian's extensive track experience has given him a different take on this and steering feel is a very subjective experience.
As usual, we seem to have wandered off topic..!
Jeff
I have to say that I'm with David in prefering a slower steering response, but that's just my driving style. No doubt Brian's extensive track experience has given him a different take on this and steering feel is a very subjective experience.
As usual, we seem to have wandered off topic..!
Jeff
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