Chips Again
- Thread starter Andy Tims
- Start date
ClubSport 911
New member
Hi Jacob
First off, I'm acting on behalf of the 911 Club Sport register, and being somewhat involved in the field of automotive engineering / power / electronics / IT needed to be sure of the advice I was giving to Club Sport owners was OK and fact based.
The register has (and me neither) no affiliation whatsoever with Steve Wong. However, he is trustworthy, capable, and experienced tuning the 911 Carrera, focusing on part throttle, and not full throttle settings.
Furthermore, his "product" is engineered well, and at a price to suit many pockets.
Of course, we also work with other Porsche tuners, and these include people like AMD etc.
Regarding the chip itself, then all I can report, is that up to now we have not reached the limit of development, and w.r.t. the differences between what works in the Club Sport and your car, I would say that there might well be be only minor differences.
There is a theory that the CS engine is "Porsche Blueprinted" (?) to even higher levels than the already high standards in the "cooking" 3.2 engine. Additionally, the valves of the CS are sodium filled, and this has allowed a raised rev limit to ~6900 rpm.
The work we are doing involves sharpening up the area above 6000rpm, and the rev range from 2500rpm plus - not only for WOT settings, but for 75%, 50% and 25% settings.
We are trying to get as close to pre-ignition as possible, w.r.t igntion, and also optimising fuel for power where required...
I would speak to Steve - he could advise you on the specific areas of difference between the chip under development, and yours.
Does this help ? I hope so !
First off, I'm acting on behalf of the 911 Club Sport register, and being somewhat involved in the field of automotive engineering / power / electronics / IT needed to be sure of the advice I was giving to Club Sport owners was OK and fact based.
The register has (and me neither) no affiliation whatsoever with Steve Wong. However, he is trustworthy, capable, and experienced tuning the 911 Carrera, focusing on part throttle, and not full throttle settings.
Furthermore, his "product" is engineered well, and at a price to suit many pockets.
Of course, we also work with other Porsche tuners, and these include people like AMD etc.
Regarding the chip itself, then all I can report, is that up to now we have not reached the limit of development, and w.r.t. the differences between what works in the Club Sport and your car, I would say that there might well be be only minor differences.
There is a theory that the CS engine is "Porsche Blueprinted" (?) to even higher levels than the already high standards in the "cooking" 3.2 engine. Additionally, the valves of the CS are sodium filled, and this has allowed a raised rev limit to ~6900 rpm.
The work we are doing involves sharpening up the area above 6000rpm, and the rev range from 2500rpm plus - not only for WOT settings, but for 75%, 50% and 25% settings.
We are trying to get as close to pre-ignition as possible, w.r.t igntion, and also optimising fuel for power where required...
I would speak to Steve - he could advise you on the specific areas of difference between the chip under development, and yours.
Does this help ? I hope so !
ClubSport 911
New member
For those interested, there is an excellent little thread to read on Rennlist
Rgds
STEVE
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131044
Rgds
STEVE
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131044
Good thread! So is the 4k chip better than the 2k then? Steve tells me that he recommends the 4k mapped for 98 RON in Europe as this allows the O2 sensor to remain and work and keeps emissions OK. But I'm still waiting for an answer back on what other benefits this brings, since it also involves a mod to a jumper in the DME (easy job by the looks though) and of course the exclusive use of 98 RON fuel - Optimax and possibly that new BP stuff????
Is the extra expense of having a 4k and solely using Optimax worth it?
Is the extra expense of having a 4k and solely using Optimax worth it?
Guest
New member
Mark I think you may have misunderstood a few things here (could be me though [8|])...
All the 3.2 carrerra's have 8K bytes of memory in the DME.
On the early DME units there are 4K of instructions and data within the CPU and a 4k eprom containing other data (maps etc..) On the later units the 4K eprom (24 pin) was replaced with an 8K eprom (28 pin)and the internal memory of the cpu disabled.
What this means is that in an early unit you are stuck using the program code and basic data in the cpu which was put there at the time it was made. Any changes are limited to the maps and data held in the 4K eprom. If you upgrade one of these boxes (by moding the link and adding an 8K socket) then you can use a chip supplied (from whoever you like) with later program code and data from an 89 and reworked maps.
This is why it is best to get an 8k (28 pin) chip because you can get the most improvements possible. The disadvantage is that if you have an older dme you will need to modify it.
Note that to my knowledge very few if any chip suppliers modify the actual program code of the DME. Most if not all just tweak the maps in the latest versions of the stock Bosch eproms.
As regards O2 sensor. Are you in the UK. is yours a UK car? If it is a UK car then it almost certainaly doesnt have an O2 sensor. Mine doesn't and I've not seen one that does. Make sure Steve does the right chip for you!
Cheers
Andy
All the 3.2 carrerra's have 8K bytes of memory in the DME.
On the early DME units there are 4K of instructions and data within the CPU and a 4k eprom containing other data (maps etc..) On the later units the 4K eprom (24 pin) was replaced with an 8K eprom (28 pin)and the internal memory of the cpu disabled.
What this means is that in an early unit you are stuck using the program code and basic data in the cpu which was put there at the time it was made. Any changes are limited to the maps and data held in the 4K eprom. If you upgrade one of these boxes (by moding the link and adding an 8K socket) then you can use a chip supplied (from whoever you like) with later program code and data from an 89 and reworked maps.
This is why it is best to get an 8k (28 pin) chip because you can get the most improvements possible. The disadvantage is that if you have an older dme you will need to modify it.
Note that to my knowledge very few if any chip suppliers modify the actual program code of the DME. Most if not all just tweak the maps in the latest versions of the stock Bosch eproms.
As regards O2 sensor. Are you in the UK. is yours a UK car? If it is a UK car then it almost certainaly doesnt have an O2 sensor. Mine doesn't and I've not seen one that does. Make sure Steve does the right chip for you!
Cheers
Andy
Andy - Steve refers to his chips as 2K & 4K, with the latter being the one to use with the G50 'boxed cars - I deliberately stayed away from any references beyond what he told me. The car is a US car (in the UK clearly) and totally to US spec AFAIK, hence the references to the O2 sensor.
That's the extent of my knowledge I'm afraid. Now if you want to know anything about Emerald ECUs and the use of 42mm Jenvey Throttle bodies I might be able to help, but I'm totally at sea when it comes to Bosch Motronic (or is it DME?) and so on! All I want to do is get back some of the power that the US cars lack. So how much work is involved in updating the earlier DME? Is it a new unit for example? I'd also wonder just how much power one would want to put thru a 915 'box, especially a US spec one without cooler...
The Rennlist thread is great - although I sense that one contributor is not very popular!
Thanks all - very useful
That's the extent of my knowledge I'm afraid. Now if you want to know anything about Emerald ECUs and the use of 42mm Jenvey Throttle bodies I might be able to help, but I'm totally at sea when it comes to Bosch Motronic (or is it DME?) and so on! All I want to do is get back some of the power that the US cars lack. So how much work is involved in updating the earlier DME? Is it a new unit for example? I'd also wonder just how much power one would want to put thru a 915 'box, especially a US spec one without cooler...
The Rennlist thread is great - although I sense that one contributor is not very popular!
Thanks all - very useful
Mark,
Without even looking at the thread (and I can't at work - it's a non-work related website apparently !!!! and this one is ????????) I imagine that Loren FB is up to his old tricks ? He seems to take any possible opportunity to rubbish any idea that any kind of gain is possible through a re-chip. Frankly he's banging his head against the wall here - you can't dispute the number of satisfied Steve W customers on the Pelican forum.
I've just installed the most up to date 98 octane Steve W chip as I was previously running a 95 octane chip sent in error - I have yet to give the car a decent run to see if the improvement is noticeable, but I was extremely happy with the 95 octane anyway, so any further grunt will just be a bonus.
I will post my thoughts once I've given it a good run and probably a track day (going to Spa later this month !)
Jamie
Without even looking at the thread (and I can't at work - it's a non-work related website apparently !!!! and this one is ????????) I imagine that Loren FB is up to his old tricks ? He seems to take any possible opportunity to rubbish any idea that any kind of gain is possible through a re-chip. Frankly he's banging his head against the wall here - you can't dispute the number of satisfied Steve W customers on the Pelican forum.
I've just installed the most up to date 98 octane Steve W chip as I was previously running a 95 octane chip sent in error - I have yet to give the car a decent run to see if the improvement is noticeable, but I was extremely happy with the 95 octane anyway, so any further grunt will just be a bonus.
I will post my thoughts once I've given it a good run and probably a track day (going to Spa later this month !)
Jamie
Guest
New member
Hmm.. I did a bit more research and found references to a 2k eprom. I hadn't realised this myself. My bad.
Its possible that Steve is refering to the 2K and 4k as chips you can put in an early DME/Motronic without doing any mods to the socket in the box. All you have to do is change 1 link.
If you want the 8K and have an early box with a 24 pin socket then you will need to update the box by changing 2 links and replacing the 24pin chip and socket with 28's.
The mod from 2k to 4k is simple and can be seen here
Here is some more info on updating early DME's to 89 spec 28 pin eproms.
Hope I havent confused the issue. Talk to Steve W. He knows whats what.
Cheers
Andy
Its possible that Steve is refering to the 2K and 4k as chips you can put in an early DME/Motronic without doing any mods to the socket in the box. All you have to do is change 1 link.
If you want the 8K and have an early box with a 24 pin socket then you will need to update the box by changing 2 links and replacing the 24pin chip and socket with 28's.
The mod from 2k to 4k is simple and can be seen here
Here is some more info on updating early DME's to 89 spec 28 pin eproms.
Hope I havent confused the issue. Talk to Steve W. He knows whats what.
Cheers
Andy
Andy - that's the diagram Steve sent me. I'll look at the other link when I have the time - until I get the car (next weekend I think) I won't know whether it is a 24 pin (but think it will be). I'm still waiting for him to tell me what the main gain is for 2k versus 4k and now I think I'll ask him about 8k too!
Jamie - you guessed right - you get that sort on every forum I guess but what it does do is to draw out the whole story from everyone and some good always comes of such postings. BTW I don't suppose you have the 95 octane chip - I'd be interested to try it out to see what performance increase it would give me.
Back in the "old days" I don't think we found one single chip that gave more than a couple of bhp extra for a 3.2 Carrera (and I'm talking in the late 1980s) - things have clearly moved on from then and I am a beneficiary of that for the second time around!
Jamie - you guessed right - you get that sort on every forum I guess but what it does do is to draw out the whole story from everyone and some good always comes of such postings. BTW I don't suppose you have the 95 octane chip - I'd be interested to try it out to see what performance increase it would give me.
Back in the "old days" I don't think we found one single chip that gave more than a couple of bhp extra for a 3.2 Carrera (and I'm talking in the late 1980s) - things have clearly moved on from then and I am a beneficiary of that for the second time around!
ClubSport 911
New member
Last night, I exchanged mails with Steve W about more development work on the "UK / 98" chip - using my CS as mule. As a result, there are now, some more works planned to extract HP from Optimax. My most recent tests (22deg ambient) are conclusive:- The car can go quicker, and a revised setting will improve the mid range torque yet further.
I'm at "v4.0" now, and will be at V"5.0" shortly.
Steve's work & attention to detail is proving most useful.
I'm at "v4.0" now, and will be at V"5.0" shortly.
Steve's work & attention to detail is proving most useful.
ClubSport 911
New member
Yes - but it's only a Wide Open Throttle test... WOT is easy. I'm (more) interested in part throttle settings...can the rolling road do these ??[
] (he said knowlingly)
Rgds
] (he said knowlingly)Rgds
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