Chipwizardry update

[clubsport]

You may be right Chris on the engine front, the difference is torque though.......
yes, lets not dwell on this, but such remarks on forums were amusing once or twice on forums in,, 1997 or so,,,,,,clearly everyone is an individual and many 964 owners I have met are decent chaps and some are seriously good drivers, Adrain,Melv, & Ian amongst others come to mind...those who repeatedly make such pointless comments,,,curiously tend to get lapped on track days..that is all I was responding to []

Then again Chris, you wouldn't understand as you are nothing but a northern muppet who has very little idea about these cars! [][][]

see how that was ok, as I added a smiley!...dull isn't it......genuinely, no offence meant mate, just proving the tedium of the added smiley that fails to add value to any discussion...

 

[65 mat]

ORIGINAL: clubsport

Always makes me laugh how these lads come on to other forums slagging cars off, they are all great cars...I just hope he enjoys his as much as we do ours. []

Apologies if my comments may have offended you Clubsport, just a bit of "tongue in cheek" banter thats all. Of course they are all great cars...I very nearly bought a 993 rs cs last year and was gutted when the deal fell through (...but thats another story)...And yes, I do enjoy my car, very very much so! Just ask ChrisW.

 

[ChrisW]

No, I mean, I can see the smiley on other posts, but I can't see the smiley on my own --- just an address for a .gif file ???

Help ! http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/micons/m16.gif

 

[Graemel]

A good few years back Rook where getting 315 from a 964RSs'. The 993RS's as a number of people have said rarely made the 304 they where supposed to. I thought it was a problem with the varioram. But hey I am not or proffess to be an expert.

 

[clubsport]

Matt, it's all banter...as I said it makes me laugh....etc.........no offence taken obviously and who am I to offend or take offence, anyhow?.....
Just off the 964 RS forum, there appears to one cup car having an engine rebuild another that has not run properly for some time, doubt they are making big numbers?!
Meanwhile the Cayenne guys are getting carried out in body bags due to depreciation and just noticed that warranties have gone up considerably on 5 year old 996's...reckon I can get in with a smart few comments laced with the occasional smileys......nah...don't think i'll bother seems a tad pointless. []

 

[SimonExtreme]

ORIGINAL: ChrisW
But a little strange to think that the 964RS based engine may be a better starting point for tuning than a 993RS lump ?

Go ask Colin at Ninemeister. He has been saying this for years.

 

[ChrisW]

ORIGINAL: clubsport

Matt, it's all banter...as I said it makes me laugh....etc.........no offence taken obviously and who am I to offend or take offence, anyhow?.....
Just off the 964 RS forum, there appears to one cup car having an engine rebuild another that has not run properly for some time, doubt they are making big numbers?!
Meanwhile the Cayenne guys are getting carried out in body bags due to depreciation and just noticed that warranties have gone up considerably on 5 year old 996's...reckon I can get in with a smart few comments laced with the occasional smileys......nah...don't think i'll bother seems a tad pointless. []

I wonder if there will be any differentiation between the GT3 / Turbo warranty and the non-GT1 block cars ?

 

[Richard Dawson]

Whilst I am sure Colin Belton is able to get good numbers out of 964RS engines, it does not appear to be without significant hardware mods.

I also note Colin runs a 993 RS? Why is he not running a 964 RS ?

 

[964RS]

I'm lead to believe that the non-varioram engine is the best ption for tuning and mods. Surprise to me but I guess that if you do major changes to the induction etc then it makes sense.

 

[Richard Dawson]

I ask Wayne that and he said it was better to keep the Varioram if possible.

It seems to me to get either of the 993 or 964 be it an RS or otherwise over 300 bhp you need to spend some cash and that sprirals up similarly for which ever as the power goes higher.

Apart from some oil leak issues for the 964 and hydraulic lifter/cam timing for the 993 they both seem similar engines which happily hit 300 bhp which again seem to leave the cars happily balanced.

Given the fundamental similarity of the base engines I would be surprised if the power outputs were not similar once a 964 engine was effectively made into a 993 engine with the changing of the 2 main changes of exhaust and airflow meter.

I would also imagine unless someone is going to tell me that the varioram system is a total waste of time and a blind alley that the 993 must more easily get a fatter midrange?

 

[65 mat]

Did the 993 Cup Car have Varioram? I know the RSR didn't...why,I don't know? Would be interested to hear why.[8|]

 

[roygarth]

I've always been led to believe it is relatively inexpensive to get the 64RS up to the 290/300 mark and very expensive to get the 93RS and 64RS up to 330/340. I think this is part of the reason why 64RS/93RS price spread in percentage terms has narrowed recently. Other factor is that most 64RS/93RS are bought for track now so the 64RS hopelessness on normal roads is less important now. If you get 64RS up to 290/300 on track it is probably quicker than 93RS.

 

[vic cohen]

IMO take 993 rs above abt 310 bhp and they become very sensitive to little things , crack heads etc; there really is no need for power increase involved or they devlop a power band so narrow its not worth it either ............go buy a GT2 ,not that i am interested !

 

[Richard Dawson]

Without getting into a"mine is bigger than yours" chat which is where this is going, I do wonder why a 964 Rs would be quicker?

I understand it is a little lighter but has inferior suspension /brakes etc? I understand the springs on a 993 softer which if that really was an issue then cheap change?

Again, are we comparing std cars or ones that are modded?

What is it that there is such a thing with 964 owners to get across a view they are faster/better/lighter/more powerful etc? I have not found the need to make similar posts in the 964 forum.

 

[vic cohen]

Little confused as that reply is addressed to me ?

Mine is bigger than urs but that certainly not my meaning , which is, with 993 unless u have a factory built rsr giving giving nigh on 400 bhp , ur going to have to mess abt with cams and heads , let alone anything else.....................surely the beauty of the 993 rs /or cs from the shop was its flexibility , simple theres a compromise and the original agaiainst the small gain on power is not worth the money or harshness incurred .............be fair i have nt changed my tune throughout ..............as for 964 s they are differnt fact !

 

[clubsport]

I think varioram is fine unless you are looking for big bhp......it is a fairly simple system, but you need to monitor any leaks, for it to remain effective.

Here we go again, with the standard/modified comparison etc...but apart from power deliveries being different, it is also worth considering the different gearing.
As to which one is faster on track, most of the difference is down to the driver, with the inverse relationship between noise made about being a hero and actual competence. []

varioram first appeared on the 993RS before it went mainstream on n/a 993 models in late 95 (96 model year).
Since then, Porsche has gone on to all sorts of variations of variocam plus/squared to the nth derivative etc....so although it is fine on a standard 993RS, it is just a part of the constant development of the 911 we have seen over the last 45 years.....the latest variocam certainly does the trick on the 97 Gt3 engine!

 

[Richard Dawson]

Sorry Vic not directed at you!

I think both 993 and 964 suit 300 bhp for a perfect balance and why the GT2 is such a different beast and where as I said over a beer everyones garage needs at least the RS and GT2!

 

[clubsport]

Depends what you want from a car though, GT2 is mostly about power, not as nimble as regular 993 RS or CS and such power appears to hinder some through the tighter twisties compared to n/a powered pork....obviously they are gone down the straights though!
Please don't take that as a knock against the Gt2, clearly a great car and one of the best Porsches ever etc....[]

 

[vic cohen]

Stop hedging Paul , in the right hands like for like [ modified or standard in the era] GT2 will stuff anything ...................[ tin helmet at the ready ]

Thanks Richard maybe getting over sensitive in my old age!

Best Modified 993 ,Paul Howells red car or maybe Colin Bs Yellow machine ?
best Modified 964 rs Adrian Palmers, Maritime blue .........recently sold .
Gt2 s with all the trimimngs whether by Roock ,RS T uning or even my own unique twin plug head jobbie , happily resting wiv Keith who knows wats the best ...........

All Fine but very expensive machines, i ll leave u with the thought are they really that much better than the original? They re very hard to move on and for my part i m sticking to almost as it left the works 993 gt2 cs .........................

 

[65 mat]

ORIGINAL: vic cohen

All Fine but  very expensive machines, i ll leave u with the thought are they really that much better than the original? They re very hard to move on  and for my part i m sticking to almost as it left the works  993 gt2 cs .........................

Fair comment Vic...as Robin from 9M says," everyone wants to modify their cars, however no one wants to buy a modified car".
I think the key is obviously "subtle" modification in order to enhance what is already good (...cause its a Porsche).

One thing is for sure...take your car to Wayne (Chipwizard) and you know its going to come back better! I can honestly say that I have never heard a bad word said about the guy.