CJ Autos Tilting Car lift

[geoffbateman]

Has anyone had any experience of using one of these with a 944? Web www.cjautos.org.uk . I know that you have to be careful jacking the 944 from the central jack point etc, but I've supported the car on stands, once raised, at the 2 front and 2 rear points with out any problems. I saw one at the Classic Car show at the NEC a couple of weeks ago and it lokked quite impressive but it lifts the car by supporting it under the sills on a pad about 3 feet long. It looks fine from the pictures on the web, but before I take the plunge I was just wondering if any of you has tried one?

 

[colin944]

I would think that lifting the car from the bottom of the sill would be a bad idea.The profile of the sill and the way it joins onto the floor would mean it would be damaged by this kind of lift.Also you could not place the bar/pad under the floor next to the sill as they are not strong enough at this point being only 0.8 mm thick steel when brand new.I always lft the car using the torsion bar at the back and under the rear of the arm at the front.

 

[Dockrell]

I have one of their hydraulic ramps and find it very useful, and well made.

Mike
White 2.7 automatic

 

[john lord]

Hi Geoff,

I guess you saw the lift at CJ Autos. I saw, and then dismissed these after thinking about it for a variety of cars.

I have a 924 with basically the same problems as a 944. Jacked it up many times with central fitting and separate trolley jack (Much safer). Once, the central jack collapsed as one axle stand swung due to lifting one side/corner at at time. Squashed me between the passenger door and the A post on my Aston. A job for 'Dent Devils', luckily I was not harmed.

I replaced the clutch some years ago and had the car perched high on four axle stands. Good stands and safe enough when it is up there but dodgy on the way up and down. It would have been nice as well to be able to move the car.

I actually purchased from CJ's, a pair of axle stand beams with wheels. The vertically adjusted stands are much heftier than even good solo stands. The width is adjustable. you can raise them quite high and when there, you can move the car about.

You could also put a horizontal timber beam across the stands, because you can turn them through 90 degrees and with pads if necessary give support across the car where it is needed by four corner jack supports, which is very suitable and safe for 924/944 etc. I paid £130 for the two, at the show and from long experience, believe it was a good safety and practical investment. There are positions, where you can lift both front or rear wheels at the same time, to put the axle beam under

At the monent, they are under my Aston.........John

 

[Jonny944CS]

Here is an illustration of the correct 924, 944 and 968 jacking points, shamelessly copied from the Pelican Parts forum:

Raising the car from any other point is unadvisable and risks damage.

 

[geoffbateman]

That's interesting, my Porshe workshop manual, the real thing not the Haynes book of lies, says that you use the central jacking points for jacking the car but the rear points (identified in the picture) and the front points (marked as do not use) are the points for lifting with a garage four point hoist, or supporting the vehicle once lifted. I notice that there is a very slight body distortion though when using these support points as the tailgate doesn't open quite the same as it does when the car is on it's wheels, only very slight but you notice it when you own the car, if you see what I mean.
Thanks for the responses, I was thinking that they would be along the lines that they are.
The other option was to try a pair of their adjustable wheel ramps which look quite neat and are about 1/2 the price. Thanks.

 

[DavidL]

Those points are fine for a lift as you spread the weight of the vehicle evenly as you lift but if you put a jack under one (especially the front) you twist the car as it goes up and this distorts things like the front floorpan and then your accelerator cable.

If you have the space used 2 and 4 post lifts are surprisingly reasonable (400-800) and I think that lot do hydraulic wheel ramps which I've looked at a couple of times.

 

[Jonny944CS]

ORIGINAL: geoffbateman

That's interesting, my Porshe workshop manual, the real thing not the Haynes book of lies, says that you use the central jacking points for jacking the car but the rear points (identified in the picture) and the front points (marked as do not use) are the points for lifting with a garage four point hoist, or supporting the vehicle once lifted. I notice that there is a very slight body distortion though when using these support points as the tailgate doesn't open quite the same as it does when the car is on it's wheels, only very slight but you notice it when you own the car, if you see what I mean.

Geoff, to be honest I'm not surprised you noticed distortion. These points really should not be used FOR ANYTHING.

The little mushroom shaped pieces that look like jacking points are a relic of late 70's / early 80's VAG manufacturing. They are used to mount the bare bodies on production-line tooling jigs...

I can't find any Porsche literature that refers to using them for jacking! Here is what I have:

(large arrow for trolley jacks and hoists, small arrow for the aluminium - road side emergency - scissor jack)

 

[Hilux]

A few years ago having got fed up with the hassle of lifting the 944 I bought a seriously good commercial quality s/h hydraulic undercar lifter with adjustable out rigger legs off e-bay that lifted the car up and down and sloped back or forward if you tied the car on but sold it (at a 50% profit) not long afterwards and then considered all the other options over a long period and concluded.............

An under sill/body lifter is fine but limits your access massively to parts on the car such as torque tube/exhaust etc etc under the car due to all the kit/supports/framing involved. It also stops you physically gaining access underneath the car for the area taken up by the lifter

A wheel ramp lifter stops you taking the wheels off

However if I want to work on a wheel I use an ordinary lift on each corner (and then can use axle stands as required)

Therefore if I want easy access to the underside I would use a pair of wheel ramp lifts...............

I didnt need the expense of hydraulics so went for the set below. A 24mm socket on a battery drill (grease the threads well) and they fly up and down, are wide enough for modern tyres and will even lift my Touareg no problem. They are heavy but a couple of hooks on the wall and they dont take up much space and are very well made.

They lift about 450mm off the floor and with tyres on thats a total lift of 700mm to 800mm at the front (or back), enough to gain access to 60 - 70 % of the car underneath

If I may say I highly recommend them (as do all my mates and neighbours who borrow them [&:] )

 

[bmnelsc]

Thanks for the info Paul - can't tell from the picture but do these ramps lift true vertical? - e.g. are they suitable for lifting one end, inserting jack stands and then moving the ramps to the other end of the car and lifting it? I appreciate you would need to jack slightly to get the ramps under the wheels.

My experience with jacking vehicles from the side is that you must have a wheeled jack that will roll under the car as it is lifted and even then you risk pulling the car off the other side jack stands (as per John's story above).

thanks

 

[Hilux]

ORIGINAL: bmnelsc

Thanks for the info Paul - can't tell from the picture but do these ramps lift true vertical? - e.g. are they suitable for lifting one end, inserting jack stands and then moving the ramps to the other end of the car and lifting it?  I appreciate you would need to jack slightly to get the ramps under the wheels.

My experience with jacking vehicles from the side is that you must have a wheeled jack that will roll under the car as it is lifted and even then you risk pulling the car off the other side jack stands (as per John's story above).

thanks

Yes (in principle) but then you need to lift the wheels on the unlifted end to get them on the ramp which I have done many times so end up with the car on the two ramps one end and axle stands at the other. They dont lift truly vertical though. I get one end on the lifting ramps and use trolley jacks for the other end and then fit axle stands to that end.

What they are great for is easily and simply getting a lot of access under the car by lifting one end. Get a tape measure and work out what a 450 mm lift will be at (say) the bottom of the front wheels - you will be quite surprised how high this gets the front/cills so you can get access to well over 50% of the car from lying on your back.

 

[mike220]

Where did you get those from Paul, they look pretty nice. No problems with front bumper/splitter scuffing them when driving on I assume ? hard to gauge how high they are when collapsed.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[john lord]

Reference "My story". What I didn't tell you was, after fifty years experience, I was lazy. My trolley jack was within hands reach but the normal jack was nearer and I couldn't be bothered to get off my knees. I will never use that one again at home.

You are right about the trolley wheels travelling and making the axle stands lean. Need to get the jack as near parallell to the car but it does not resolve the risk altogether. The moral being don't be lazy and do the job proerly !

 

[Hilux]

I must start out by saying I have no affiliation with the company or its products I recommend below but have found the product to be a fantastic, strong, versatile and well made bit of kit.

ORIGINAL: mike220

Where did you get those from Paul, they look pretty nice. No problems with front bumper/splitter scuffing them when driving on I assume ? hard to gauge how high they are when collapsed.

Cheers,

Mike

From C J AUTO`s except mine are in metallic blue [] - having just looked, the price on offer is what I paid for mine a few years ago

I checked my manual version and they are about 175mm high to top of ramp (wheel stop is slightly higher) when fully lowered and a ramp length up to the platform of about 530mm

Note however the hydraulic version is only 125mm high when lowered but you pay £100 for the hydraulics and must lock them in position whereas the manual version is infinitely adjustable and self locks. I dont know if the hydraulics are quick release fittings but I doubt it so if they arent you are dragging around three bits of kit connected with pipes or disconnecting it all each time you want to put it away.

If you want to get to an exhaust or torque tube or underbody you can do this with the manual type (but have to buy extra length hydraulic pipes for the hydraulic type.............)

I think they sell themselves in my view as an ordinary set of ramps is no good for sports cars and extended ramps take up loads of room and cost quite a bit. Also, you`ll always sell them on easily in years to come if you decide your spannering days are over and there`s nowt to go wrong with them unlike hydraulic seals etc - thats my reasoning anyway.

 

[mike220]

Slightly more expensive than what I thought they'd be, but can't really complain about vfm. Agree with everything you said Paul, and wouldn't even contemplate the hydraulic ones, it just doesn't need the extra complications or any more power to do what they're designed for. resale when complete wouldn't be a problem too, looks like I may invest in some of those in the new year......
thanks for the info and answers bud,

Mike

 

[Dockrell]

The hydraulic ramps do have a disconnect facility so the ramps and pump can be moved and stored separately.
I view the lock facility as additional safety. I cannot remember the ramps lowering themselves when I have used them even after four or five hours use.

Mike
White 2.7 automatic

 

[chrisflorey]

I have one of these tilts brand new in stock . We brought ten a while back pm me if interested , same one as cj


Cheers chris